Author Topic: LEOs in action Collier county (Read 7229 times)

Cuda · « **on:** February 10, 2013, 05:11:44 AM »

I hope they go to jai

l.http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/201302100110/NEWS0119/302100046

booger · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2013, 05:35:48 AM »

I'd say they went a little overboard. With the right attorney, that guy shouldn't have to work for the rest of his life.

Snibbor · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2013, 09:49:51 AM »

This might not make me popular, but if you run from the police at over 100 mph you kinda earned an arrest that will be less than gentle. Yes, cops go to far sometimes and that shouldn't be tolerated. But it sounds like the rider isn't exactly innocent.

VirginiaJim · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2013, 10:29:17 AM »

Does seem a bit excessive and the comment about killing him is totally unprofessional from a LEO. I guess the LEO forgot about the dash cam...

Cuda · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2013, 10:36:47 AM »

Quote from: Snibbor on February 10, 2013, 09:49:51 AM

This might not make me popular, but if you run from the police at over 100 mph you kinda earned an arrest that will be less than gentle. Yes, cops go to far sometimes and that shouldn't be tolerated. But it sounds like the rider isn't exactly innocent.

I guess they should have just killed him right?
I have a Criminal Justice degree and spent some time with the Niagara Falls police dept back in the mid 70's and have seen similar $hit and it PISSES ME OFF. NO one has the right to do that.
Back then It was a all white male dept and some Blacks got sick of it , they set up two officers and about killed them and got away with it .

stoneworrior · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2013, 10:49:35 AM »

Boo hoo he was endangering lives during the chase and was clearly trying to pull his arms from the officer in the video. The way my dad raised me if I screwed up I got my @ss beat, no sympathy from me. If he would have just pulled over he would have just gotten a ticket. Cry me a river over a brainless idiot? Screw that he deserved it.

Rhino · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2013, 10:50:00 AM »

I don't know $hit about police work but once the guy was off the bike with hands in the air wouldn't have been safer for the officers to stand back with weapon drawn, order the guy to the ground face down then calmly cuff him? Rushing and tackling while he's standing there with hands in the air seems like the most dangerous way to handle it. But the official response was: “Deputy’s actions appear to be justified and in line with CCSO policy.” Question for the LEO's here: is that SOP to rush and tackle someone standing with hands in the air?

stoneworrior · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:02:23 AM »

I may not know police work but I DO KNOW COMBAT. When the adrenaline starts rushing things change plain and simple. With more time and experience this officer may be able to control the rush better. The problem is it is way too easy for a bystander watching the video after the fact to point out a better way of handling the situation. Hell if a Doctor is "practicing medicine" then you have to give the police some slack and let them gain more time under going the stresses of these situations. Just because he is wearing a badge doesn't mean he sees this kind of stress all the time. Just like combat, you will go long periods of extreme boredom with very short periods of hi intense stress. That kind of thing is NOT that easy to handle until you have gone through it a few times. All I am saying is it is easy for someone to watch the video and point out what should have happened after the fact.

Snibbor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2013, 11:07:12 AM »

Quote from: Cuda on February 10, 2013, 10:36:47 AM

I guess they should have just killed him right?
I have a Criminal Justice degree and spent some time with the Niagara Falls police dept back in the mid 70's and have seen similar $hit and it PISSES ME OFF. NO one has the right to do that.
Back then It was a all white male dept and some Blacks got sick of it , they set up two officers and about killed them and got away with it .

No Cuda, they shouldn't have shot him. They really shouldn't have whupped up on him that much either. BUT, the rider shouldn't have tried to evade them at over 100 mph, endangering the lives of innocent people in the area. So honestly, I don't feel sorry for him, not one bit. You couldn't pay me enough to be a cop. It's a no win job. Go to far and you're sued. Don't go far enough and maybe you get shot when you come across a real bad guy. It's kinda like football. Monday morning quarterbacking is pretty easy
But hey, that's the culture we're in now. Commit a crime, get slapped on the wrist (if that) and blame on you're problems on someone or something else.

Nosmo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2013, 01:21:04 PM »

It seems a little excessive, but I agree that adrenaline and combat mind-set can affect the situation and it is difficult to judge if you weren't involved. However, I don't oppose a good a$$-kicking as a form of punishment AFTER a person has been convicted. It seems like no one worries about monetary fines and a little jail time these days. Bring back corporal punishment. Ten lashes in the town square, a couple of days in the stocks having rotten garbage thrown at you, stoning. Maybe then we'd get a little redcution in repeat offenders.

Snibbor · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2013, 01:46:26 PM »

Does Singapore still cane people, lol

VirginiaJim · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:30:18 PM »

They should bring that over here...

Walker18 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:39:13 PM »

Sure, it's easy to critique the traffic stop after the fact, but isn't that done by his sargent and captain? Bottom line, this is
the policeman's chosen profession, and he is considered a professional. Is his action, or over reaction allowed by an adrenaline
rush excuse? For example, in my job, we exercise scenarios of possible failure situations, and our responses to correct them. We
practice them, talk about them, and document the entire exercise, from beginning to end. I'm sure several folks out there do the same
in their line of work, so I would expect, actually I would hope this would be a requirement of all Leo's to do the same, and if they do,
then was this officer(s) action followed as what was taught? I am not attacking nor defending, but honestly, it does appear a bit excessive.

booger · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:33:44 PM »

Quote from: stoneworrior on February 10, 2013, 10:49:35 AM

Boo hoo he was endangering lives during the chase and was clearly trying to pull his arms from the officer in the video. The way my dad raised me if I screwed up I got my @ss beat, no sympathy from me. If he would have just pulled over he would have just gotten a ticket. Cry me a river over a brainless idiot? Screw that he deserved it.

Stoneworrior, getting your ass kicked is one thing. Threatening to kill somebody over a traffic violations or evading arrest is overboard. If the LEO had proceeded to kill this guy, would you think it was justified?

stevewfl · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2013, 03:39:43 PM »

Quote from: Cuda on February 10, 2013, 05:11:44 AM

I hope they go to jai

l.http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/201302100110/NEWS0119/302100046

Collier Co.? Man I'm down through there all the time visiting Teressa in Naples,FL and hope to bump into you sometime.

Doubt the po-po will be whoopin' my arse, nowadays I'm too old at 48 to run. Easier to just pull over and suck it up, take the ticket, call my attorney and spend money, laugh at po-po, repeater process.

OCK913 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2013, 01:53:12 AM »

I will agree that watching the video makes it appear excessive (and it very well could be). However, in Florida, fleeing and eluding is a felony crime. So the rider turned this from a traffic ticket into a felony, not the officers. Most folks who flee do so for a reason, they have something to hide or some reason they don't want to be caught. When you deal with the thugs of society day in and day out you quickly learn that they do not respond to a polite "sir, will you please turn around so I can arrest you". The threat of a pointed gun, a few 4 letter words, and being knocked to the ground is all they understand.
I don't have all the facts so I am cannot defend their actions, but because you don't have those facts either, I will speak my mind to those who would pass blame having no earthly idea what it is like to do this job. This is not 1960 anymore folks, watch the news, people kill each other every single day.

Quote

For example, in my job, we exercise scenarios of possible failure situations, and our responses to correct them. We
practice them, talk about them, and document the entire exercise, from beginning to end.

Well that is fantastic, but does any of those scenarios end with you dying if you don't make the right decision in a fraction of a second?

I know it is cheesy, but I think Col. Jessup summed it up quite nicely ......
A Few Good Man "You Can't Handle the Truth"

devilboy · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2013, 04:09:39 AM »

For what it is worth both sides were wrong.. Biker raised his status to felony evasion and that put the police on increased alert
the biker probably said at the dead end , I am in deep S**T and stood down. Police should have stood down somewhat but
they stayed at high alert. They had no idea why the guy was fleeing or whether he was armed. BUT when his hands went up that is signal that in theory that biker gives up.. How do the police know if this is true?? they don't....
but the 2 initial contact officers could have brought it down a level and if they put more energy to getting the guy in cuffs than beating him it could have been cuffed and the "threat" eliminated much sooner...
Where do I stand on this one?? I can see both sides of the story and both did something wrong.
the answer.. I am sure the guy could be convicted of felony evasion but smartest move would be to accept a lesser charge or probation to cost the police dept less in civil court...

Bikers in general seem to be singled out quite a bit lately for biker only checkpoints and other arbitrary infractions. best thing to do is obey the law and hopefully this doesn't happen to you or me.

Pokey · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2013, 07:17:33 AM »

Quote from: stoneworrior on February 10, 2013, 11:02:23 AM

I may not know police work but I DO KNOW COMBAT. When the adrenaline starts rushing things change plain and simple. With more time and experience this officer may be able to control the rush better. The problem is it is way too easy for a bystander watching the video after the fact to point out a better way of handling the situation. Hell if a Doctor is "practicing medicine" then you have to give the police some slack and let them gain more time under going the stresses of these situations. Just because he is wearing a badge doesn't mean he sees this kind of stress all the time. Just like combat, you will go long periods of extreme boredom with very short periods of hi intense stress. That kind of thing is NOT that easy to handle until you have gone through it a few times. All I am saying is it is easy for someone to watch the video and point out what should have happened after the fact.

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cuda · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2013, 08:57:03 AM »

I'm sorry you have to be a PROFESSIONAL AND NOT LET YOUR EGO get involved
Your on a real slippery slope if you think they did the right thing . this is NOT COMBAT , this is not live or die , this is a very good young kid riding home after working out , the six lane road with median that he was on at 9:30 at night has no traffic, this is one dead town after 9pm and that road is new without many turn offs .
EGO was hurt bottom line
Don't you think after Jiu Jitsu practice he had a little extra adrenaline rush going on?
I know I did a lot of stupid things on my bike when I was his age , I worked at a health spa as a instructer ( while in college ) and drove thru traffic like I was in a race ( always late)
I still have a HARD time restraining my self

I never crashed or got caught.

Walker18 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2013, 09:00:06 AM »

Quote from: OCK913 on February 11, 2013, 01:53:12 AM

Well that is fantastic, but does any of those scenarios end with you dying if you don't make the right decision in a fraction of a second?

Well, yes. I maintain, either routine or repair high power equipment. Transformers, breakers, etc. Basically anything you might see in a substation
yard. All the equipment I work or operate on have the voltage range from 13.8kv to 233kv. One mistake, in a fraction of a second, can easily end
my life, and anyone near me.
Now, I wasn't attacking either side, as I had stated. If you took my comment as an attack, my apologies. Not everything is as it seems, in this case,
a video and some side bar comments.

News:

Author Topic: LEOs in action Collier county (Read 7229 times)

devilboy