Octane Boost ?

[Canada44]

I am going on a 2500 mile ride and traveling to some areas that only have gas stations that only have 87 Regular gas. Anyone use an octane booster?  I am thinking of buying a bottle and bringing some with me. Never used the stuff, any suggestions would be helpful

Thanks
Paul

[katata1100]

Sport Compact did a review of boosters and concluded that two worked, they were pure toulene and mmt.
Toulene is hard to get in some areas, works wonders, is also $ about $19 a gallon where I live.
MMT works well, they used Outlaw brand. Keep in mind that although they work better with lower octanes, I don't think you can turn 87 into 91, well maybe with enough toulene.
Google for the article, they tested octane before and after.

[Mister Tee]

Also, there are people that do run 87 octane without any apparent problems.  I've been running it in the Winter, and using mid grade 89 in the Summer.  If you happen to be travelling through those areas that have 10% ethanol blends, the effective octane of 87 is close to 90 anyway.  The single upside to oxygenated gas.

I'd probably just carry a bottle of booster and use it if you start knocking.

[tthompsr]

I started using octane booster around here when I realized nobody was buying the premium gas due to the price and had two incidents with bad gas.I ran a couple of bottles thru and didn't notice any improvement,Now I just buy regular gas if the station is not a busy one!

[B.D.F.]

Are you sure about alcohol up- rating the octane of the fuel? I always thought that the pump specified octane rating took into account the increase due to the alcohol content.

??

Brian

Also, there are people that do run 87 octane without any apparent problems.  I've been running it in the Winter, and using mid grade 89 in the Summer.  If you happen to be travelling through those areas that have 10% ethanol blends, the effective octane of 87 is close to 90 anyway.  The single upside to oxygenated gas.

I'd probably just carry a bottle of booster and use it if you start knocking.

[Mister Tee]

No, because for rating purposes the test engines are run at two specific speeds (700 rpm for RON and 900 rpm for MON)  and the relationship between measured octane is not constant at all engine speeds.  When the manufacturers determine the minimum required octane for an engine they assume a straight heptane/octane blend.  What happens when alcohol is added, is that the same measured octane (either RON or R+M/2) will behave differently and have more knocking resistance up in the band where the engine is actually operating.

[B.D.F.]

It is just surprising to me that any manufacturer would give anything away in that manner. I believe ethanol has an octane rating of something like 120 and the combination with gasoline will increase the new fuels' octane basically in a linear fashion. So it would make economic sense for the fuel distributor to combine a lower octane gasoline with alcohol to just meet the requirements of the label on the pump. Put another way, it is hard to believe gasoline distributors are not taking advantage of the extreme octane rating of alcohol and actually selling <anything> that consistently meets a higher standard (selling 87 octane fuel that will actually meet 90 octane fuel requirements).

I am not saying this as a knock (pun intended) toward fuel refiners or distributors, just pointing out the common sense of doing business. If I were selling milk by the gallon you can be assured that I would not mistakenly or casually fill containers to 1.1 gallons and yet charge the one gallon price.

Brian

No, because for rating purposes the test engines are run at two specific speeds (700 rpm for RON and 900 rpm for MON)  and the relationship between measured octane is not constant at all engine speeds.  When the manufacturers determine the minimum required octane for an engine they assume a straight heptane/octane blend.  What happens when alcohol is added, is that the same measured octane (either RON or R+M/2) will behave differently and have more knocking resistance up in the band where the engine is actually operating.

[Mister Tee]

It is just surprising to me that any manufacturer would give anything away in that manner. I believe ethanol has an octane rating of something like 120 and the combination with gasoline will increase the new fuels' octane basically in a linear fashion. So it would make economic sense for the fuel distributor to combine a lower octane gasoline with alcohol to just meet the requirements of the label on the pump. Put another way, it is hard to believe gasoline distributors are not taking advantage of the extreme octane rating of alcohol and actually selling <anything> that consistently meets a higher standard (selling 87 octane fuel that will actually meet 90 octane fuel requirements).

I am not saying this as a knock (pun intended) toward fuel refiners or distributors, just pointing out the common sense of doing business. If I were selling milk by the gallon you can be assured that I would not mistakenly or casually fill containers to 1.1 gallons and yet charge the one gallon price.

Brian

It's not their choice - they have to go by the FTC rating protocol.  Personally, I think they should charge less for ethanol fuels because of the reduced BTU content and subsequent reduced mileage.

[B.D.F.]

Again, I do not have specific knowledge of any federal rules on how two fuels mixed together must be tested but.... how about E85? Does the 15% gasoline have to meet the fuel's stated anti- knock rating and the 85% alcohol is along for the ride? That would result in a tremendous underrating for the fuel as it is consumed; rated at 90 octane, it would be much closer to 115 octane (research + motor / 2). In actual practice, there could be far fewer anti- knock additives in E85 than gasoline laced with 10% alcohol but only if the testing was done on the finished product, not merely one of the ingredients.

As to it being less expensive to purchase alcohol, I will pass on that entire topic for two reasons: the first is that it is a very touchy subject and I want to limit my involvement with any inherently unstable topics < > and the second is that I really have little knowledge in the area of the real (read: total) cost of using a grain based product for fuel.
Brian

It's not their choice - they have to go by the FTC rating protocol.  Personally, I think they should charge less for ethanol fuels because of the reduced BTU content and subsequent reduced mileage.

[stevewfl]

I use 87 in the country when i'm scared of bad gas in their premium or mid-grade (rural mom pop stations that hasn't had premium pumped in years), or stations so rural they don't carry premium.

Also, the ZX14s we ran 87 pump all the time at the drag strip for the increased performance (at the risk of the increased detonation).

I've never seen an engine damaged yet by 87.

[stevewfl]

BDF:  in the ZX14 forums, E85 has been heavily tested on the bike and dyno rults/comparisons posted.  Personally i haven't read through to know what results have been found with the Kawi engines.

[B.D.F.]

E85 will produce more power in a given engine if the fuel system is set up to meter it properly. When the highest performance is needed. alcohol is always the fuel of choice. The basic problem is that alcohol has a low specific energy and much larger quantities of it must be burned to produce the same power that gasoline would yield. That sounds confusing but it is really simple: Alcohol will provide more power but will also require more fuel (per unit volume) to be consumed.

The question here is whether or not alcohol's much higher anti- knock rating (octane rating) is acknowledged on the pump when you buy it.

Brian

BDF:  in the ZX14 forums, E85 has been heavily tested on the bike and dyno rults/comparisons posted.  Personally i haven't read through to know what results have been found with the Kawi engines.

[IRULE]

As far as I am concern, it doesn't hurt to use it.  Give a little love to the bike once in a while!  I'm all in!

[Mister Tee]

E85 will produce more power in a given engine if the fuel system is set up to meter it properly. When the highest performance is needed. alcohol is always the fuel of choice. The basic problem is that alcohol has a low specific energy and much larger quantities of it must be burned to produce the same power that gasoline would yield. That sounds confusing but it is really simple: Alcohol will provide more power but will also require more fuel (per unit volume) to be consumed.

The question here is whether or not alcohol's much higher anti- knock rating (octane rating) is acknowledged on the pump when you buy it.

Brian

For a gasoline to be sold as a certain grade, it has to test out at the minimum rated octane at which its sold.  Typically, distributors will formulate blends to minimally meet octane requirements so they can minimize their costs.  The two major fractions in gasoline are octane (more expensive to manufacture, greater knocking resistance) and heptane (cheaper to manufacture, less knocking resistance.)  By definition, octane is the percentage of octane in a straight octane/heptane blend and that in fact is what is used to calibrate an ISO test engine.

In reality though, octane is cut with other hydrocarbon fractions besides heptane, and alcohol, which affects the measured octane value.  So, let's say the distributor is going to sell an 87 octane 10% ethanol blend - which fraction will the alcohol replace?  Octane, obviously, so they adjust the blend to maximize the heptane (or other cheaper fraction) content until 87 is minimally achieved in the ISO test engine.

E85 is another animal though, and I suspect the only reason they bother to add a 15% gasoline blend is just so petroleum suppliers can get rid of junk fractions they would have to otherwise crack or polymerize to make useful.  My guess is E85's test octane is actually substantially higher than even it's rating but I don't know for sure.