This is probably headed to the arena but anyway.....

So the latest 'shoot 'em up' was in NJ, and apparently there were 'factions' (gangs? groups?) involved. Anyway, I found this tidbit fascinating:

"Mr. Onofri said multiple weapons were recovered from the scene, including a handgun with an “extended capacity magazine” that could hold more ammunition than permitted under state law."

Now how could it be that these people who shot 20 other people could possibly have extended, illegal magazines? Did they not know they were breaking the law by merely posessing them? Do we need to pass MORE laws about magazine capacity limits to ensure that no one could possibly have them? I do not understand how or why these people committing criminal acts, up to and including murder, would violate the state's magazine capacity laws? It is simply amazing.

Perhaps if NJ cuts the max. magazine capacity to 1/2 of whatever it is now this kind of behavior will stop?

Yeah, that's the ticket. 

Brian

 Let’s just make it illegal to own guns in New Jersey.
I’m sure that will stop all this illegal activity.   

Laws don't stop criminals.  If it did, we could just pass a law that makes it illegal to break the law and suddenly crime would disappear.  Laws generally just take rights away from the "good" people.  Of course, we need laws, but at some point, they do much more harm than good.  Most gun control laws are just completely illogical.

We could just make New Jersey illegal so that everybody could be arrested and there would be no crime.

We could just make New Jersey illegal so that everybody could be arrested and there would be no crime.

Y'all are totally missing the point. If we didn't need more laws "to protect us", why would we need politicians?

SSHhhh...don't tell anyone, but.....................

THE WAY TO STOP A BAD GUY WITH A GUN IS A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/hero-civilian-in-tumwater-walmart-shooting-is-pastor-and-medic/281-565164739

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2018/06/18/armed-civilian-kills-gunman-stops-shooting-spree-at-walmart-in-washington-state/

I never can understand why people can't conceive of the fact that OUTLAWS don't obey the LAWS, that's why they are outlaws.

https://youtu.be/fZLeaSWY37I

not trying to make serious crime into humor, but... it's taken way to lightly in my mind.

A very dear freind of mine, that I grew up with, was killed just over a year ago, as an innocent man simply sitting at a stoplight, while a high speed chase involving a car load of Crackheaded Gangsters had a high speed rolling shootout with another car, containing some other people of low reputations...
My pal, a highly respected art teacher at 3 local colleges, that didn't have a single violent thought, was shot in the head, and died a the scene, about 3 city blocks from work, and the best hospitals in the city.
The 3 Gangstah's, when finally tried, and found guilty (took wyyyyy to long), will likely never be on the street again, but as I followed this whole travesty, during the trials the individual Indictments were accessible for viewing.
The "list" of offenses, for each perp' where between 35-50 "laws" each broke, but the end result', the death of my pal, and also a 16 yr old kid, that they were chasing, were only 2 items out of the total 'crimes' committed by each.

stuff like this:
"The jury found xxxxxx guilty of all charges: two counts of aggravated murder, two counts of murder committed as a result of discharging a firearm on a public roadway, two counts of murder committed as a result of a felonious assault, two counts of discharging a firearm on a public roadway, four counts of felonious assault, and one count of improper handling of a firearm in a motor vehicle.
The jury also found xxxxxx guilty CCW and the firearm specifications including a five-year drive-by shooting specification."


Type     Statute           Description                                    Disposition
INDICT   2903.01.A   AGGRAVATED MURDER   PLD GLTY- N/C LIO-AMEND @ P/T
INDICT   2903.01.A   AGGRAVATED MURDER   PLD GLTY- N/C LIO-AMEND @ P/T
INDICT   2903.02.B   MURDER                            NOLLE
INDICT   2923.162.A(3)   DISCHARGE OF FIREARM ON OR NEAR
                             PROHIBITED PREMISES            NOLLE
INDICT   2903.02.B   MURDER                            NOLLE
INDICT   2923.162.A(3)   DISCHARGE OF FIREARM ON OR
                               NEAR PROHIBITED PREMISES   NOLLE
INDICT   2903.02.B   MURDER                                         NOLLE
INDICT   2903.11.A(2)   FELONIOUS ASSAULT          NOLLE
INDICT   2903.02.B   MURDER                                   NOLLE
INDICT   2903.11.A(2)   FELONIOUS ASSAULT           NOLLE
INDICT   2903.11.A(2)   FELONIOUS ASSAULT   PLD GLTY- N/C LIO-AMEND @ P/T
INDICT   2903.11.A(2)   FELONIOUS ASSAULT   PLD GLTY- N/C LIO-AMEND @ P/T
INDICT   2923.16.B   IMPROPERLY HANDLING FIREARMS
                                      IN A MOTOR VEHICLE             NOLLE
INDICT   2923.12.A(2)   CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS   NOLLE

the above criminal plead out, so they tossed all the (NOLLE) charges,

but the other 2 got trial by Jury, so...
Type         Statute   Description                                    Disposition
INDICT   2903.01.A   AGGRAVATED MURDER   FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.01.A   AGGRAVATED MURDER   FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.02.B   MURDER                            FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2923.162.A(3)   DISCHARGE OF FIREARM ON
                          OR NEAR PROHIBITED PREMISES   FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.02.B   MURDER                                  FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2923.162.A(3)   DISCHARGE OF FIREARM ON
                         OR NEAR PROHIBITED PREMISES   FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.02.B   MURDER                          FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.11.A(2)   FELONIOUS ASSAULT   FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.02.B   MURDER                              FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.11.A(2)   FELONIOUS ASSAULT   FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.11.A(2)   FELONIOUS ASSAULT   FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2903.11.A(2)   FELONIOUS ASSAULT   FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2923.16.B   IMPROPERLY HANDLING FIREARMS
                                   IN A MOTOR VEHICLE        FND GLTY - JURY
INDICT   2923.12.A(2)   CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS   FND GLTY - JURY

I realize the whole 'total' picture had to play out to fully prosecute, but in reality the outcome was tragic....
http://www.cleveland19.com/story/37319980/jury-deliberating-in-trial-of-3rd-suspect-accused-in-professors-murder

http://www.cleveland19.com/story/36852086/watch-live-2-men-being-sentenced-for-murder-of-cleveland-state-professor

sick part is, being local, and involving a person I have known most of my life, simply accessing court records, and info, (which anyone can do), I've read the 'appeals' on both 'found guilty', which only cost $114 each to file... and find them both insulting to anyone with a brain.

My wife was always about "rights to a just trial" when she was an attorney...
but in crimes like this, the second the decision was made to 'play', all rights became moot....

involving a car load of Crackheaded Gangsters had a high speed rolling shootout with another car, containing some other people of low reputations

What is even more sad is that I can just bet all those "gangsters" had violent rap sheets already, and yet were roaming the streets, terrorizing innocent people.  And probably pleaded out before, or were released early to free up more "space" in the prison system.

Yeah, but if Modern Sporting Rifles and large capacity magazines were made illegal, I am sure they would respect those laws and forgo using firearms..... Yeah, that's the ticket.

Brian

What is even more sad is that I can just bet all those "gangsters" had violent rap sheets already, and yet were roaming the streets, terrorizing innocent people.  And probably pleaded out before, or were released early to free up more "space" in the prison system.

Yeah, but if Modern Sporting Rifles and large capacity magazines were made illegal, I am sure they would respect those laws and forgo using firearms..... Yeah, that's the ticket.

Brian

the media reporting was erroneous... no rifle was ever used in this crime spree..
3 hand guns, an astra 9mm, a Berretta 9mm with an extended mag, and a Glock .40 with a 50 round drum mag

the media reporting was erroneous... no rifle was ever used in this crime spree..  3 hand guns, an astra 9mm, a Berretta 9mm with an extended mag, and a Glock .40 with a 50 round drum mag

And most importantly, all probably obtained illegally, and almost certainly owned/carried illegally, and absolutely used illegally.  But if we just had more laws restricting the legal purchasing of arms and ammo and the legal owning of them and carrying, that would make SO much positive difference...

Well, it *WILL* make a difference- but it is the exact opposite of what they think.  Crime will go up because good people can't defend themselves, and the major deterrence of "regular good people who might also be armed" erodes more and more.  It is just that simple.  It is supported by so much proven fact, and yet, so many people are still in complete denial about it.