Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: gonzosc1 on October 01, 2011, 11:25:05 AM
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I believe the manual says change the clutch and brake fluid every two years. I noticed on my morning ride, that the color of the brake fluid still looks clear while looking at it through the little site window. but the clutch fluid is very dark, almost black looking through the plastic window.
only had the bike for 10 month, almost 10k miles on it.
should the clutch fluid be changed more often or just go the two years?
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If the clutch fluid is discolored, I'd change it regardless of the age. Not sure why it would be so different from the brake fluid though. Anyone have a theory?
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If the clutch fluid is discolored, I'd change it regardless of the age. Not sure why it would be so different from the brake fluid though. Anyone have a theory?
only thing I can think of is that the brake doesn't get as much use as the clutch which would cause the wear. but then again the clutch fluid is not going through the pressure like the brake fluid does! hell I don't know.
I guess I will change out the clutch fluid every year.
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Brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs water. As it does this, it changes color from clear to very dark. This is an indicator as to how much water the fluid has absorbed and a great 'yardstick' by which to gauge when to change the fluid; anything darker than, say, tan and the fluid should be changed.
That applies to brake systems but not necessarily the clutch because clutch fluid always gets darker, faster than brake fluid. The reason is that the hydraulic parts internal to the clutch move much more and so wear much more than brake parts. Some of the darkness of clutch fluid is actually metal fines worn off the master and slave cylinders. Brake systems are effectively zero movement systems in which the master cylinder is used only to pressurize the system, not really move anything. Of course the brake pads do move but it is only a few thousandths of an inch. The clutch on the other hand is always used for its full travel whenever it is used; both the master cylinder and slave cylinder move throughout their entire travel each time the clutch is used. Add to that that the clutch is used more often than the brakes and it ends up that there is a lot more piston travel, and resulting wear, in the clutch than either or both brake systems.
This was my clutch slave cylinder after something like 50K miles- the areas showing wear have had some steel removed in the form of fines (extremely small particles) and it ends up in the clutch fluid because it cannot go anywhere else.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/Slavecylinder.jpg)
Brian
I believe the manual says change the clutch and brake fluid every two years. I noticed on my morning ride, that the color of the brake fluid still looks clear while looking at it through the little site window. but the clutch fluid is very dark, almost black looking through the plastic window.
only had the bike for 10 month, almost 10k miles on it.
should the clutch fluid be changed more often or just go the two years?
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I change the fluid on my bike whenever it gets to a tan or brown color. The stuff is pretty inexpensive and fairly easy to change as long as you do not suck any air into the system.
Brian
only thing I can think of is that the brake doesn't get as much use as the clutch which would cause the wear. but then again the clutch fluid is not going through the pressure like the brake fluid does! hell I don't know.
I guess I will change out the clutch fluid every year.
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I change the fluid on my bike whenever it gets to a tan or brown color. The stuff is pretty inexpensive and fairly easy to change as long as you do not suck any air into the system.
Brian
OK thats good enough for me. I'll change it out, I have a hand vac pump.
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I do mine on a yearly basis. My C10 had the same issue with the clutch fluid turning darker within a few months of the flush. I gave up worrying about it and just changed it every year.
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I think heat plays a bigger role in breaking down clutch faster than the front brakes.
The clutch line runs right next to the engine.
Most of us don't use the brakes as much as we think we do. Nor do we apply as much braking force as we think we do.
By the time someone gets to the skill level to buy a C-14, they pretty much know how to ride. It is the Number 1 old farts bike.
Ever owned a Ducati?
All of my rear brakes turn brown within a month with the Res. right next to the rear cylinder exhuast header pipe.
The clutch is brown within three months.
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... By the time someone gets to the skill level to buy a C-14, they pretty much know how to ride. It is the Number 1 old farts bike.
...
I represent that remark!
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Brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs water. As it does this, it changes color from clear to very dark. This is an indicator as to how much water the fluid has absorbed and a great 'yardstick' by which to gauge when to change the fluid; anything darker than, say, tan and the fluid should be changed.
That applies to brake systems but not necessarily the clutch because clutch fluid always gets darker, faster than brake fluid. The reason is that the hydraulic parts internal to the clutch move much more and so wear much more than brake parts. Some of the darkness of clutch fluid is actually metal fines worn off the master and slave cylinders. Brake systems are effectively zero movement systems in which the master cylinder is used only to pressurize the system, not really move anything. Of course the brake pads do move but it is only a few thousandths of an inch. The clutch on the other hand is always used for its full travel whenever it is used; both the master cylinder and slave cylinder move throughout their entire travel each time the clutch is used. Add to that that the clutch is used more often than the brakes and it ends up that there is a lot more piston travel, and resulting wear, in the clutch than either or both brake systems.
This was my clutch slave cylinder after something like 50K miles- the areas showing wear have had some steel removed in the form of fines (extremely small particles) and it ends up in the clutch fluid because it cannot go anywhere else.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/Slavecylinder.jpg)
Brian
Excellent post Brian. Makes all sort of sense. Thank you.
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but the clutch fluid is very dark, almost black looking through the plastic window
There is a large black plastic floating piece in the clutch reservoir, iirc, and that may be what you are seeing as black. That being said, change the fluid at least every other year, if not yearly. Protect your painted parts. Don't overfill the brake reservoirs if you are close to pad replacement time or you'll overflow when you push the pistons back. Also, take note of the cover gasket for the reservoirs. It kind of hooks around the top edge of the reservoir. If you don't get it fully on it may start to leak and spray brake/clutch fluid all over your jacket and the top of your bike. damhik. >:(
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There is a large black plastic floating piece in the clutch reservoir, iirc, and that may be what you are seeing as black. That being said, change the fluid at least every other year, if not yearly. Protect your painted parts. Don't overfill the brake reservoirs if you are close to pad replacement time or you'll overflow when you push the pistons back. Also, take note of the cover gasket for the reservoirs. It kind of hooks around the top edge of the reservoir. If you don't get it fully on it may start to leak and spray brake/clutch fluid all over your jacket and the top of your bike. damhik. >:(
Thanks for the tip.
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There is a large black plastic floating piece in the clutch reservoir, iirc, and that may be what you are seeing as black. That being said, change the fluid at least every other year, if not yearly. Protect your painted parts. Don't overfill the brake reservoirs if you are close to pad replacement time or you'll overflow when you push the pistons back. Also, take note of the cover gasket for the reservoirs. It kind of hooks around the top edge of the reservoir. If you don't get it fully on it may start to leak and spray brake/clutch fluid all over your jacket and the top of your bike. damhik. >:(
+1 on everything, even the damhik.
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Start with clutch fluid change. You may be surprised how bad the brake fluid maybe after you see fresh stuff. Also, how does the back brake fluid look like? Dont forget about that one. You can buy the smaller brake fluid container and do front rear brake with clutch.
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Start with clutch fluid change. You may be surprised how bad the brake fluid maybe after you see fresh stuff. Also, how does the back brake fluid look like? Dont forget about that one. You can buy the smaller brake fluid container and do front rear brake with clutch.
And don't forget that there are two bleeders on the back brake, one on the inside and one on the outside of the caliper.
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This bike also has bleeders at both brake and clutch master cylinders. My other bikes do not have this feature. Is it necessary to bleed through those first when changing the brake fluid? the only reason I see is to replace the old brake fluid from the master cylinders first without pushing it through the whole system.
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This bike also has bleeders at both brake and clutch master cylinders. My other bikes do not have this feature. Is it necessary to bleed through those first when changing the brake fluid? the only reason I see is to replace the old brake fluid from the master cylinders first without pushing it through the whole system.
If I'm flushing the system just to change fluid, I don't touch them. However, when I put on my Heli ST bars and had to add extension lines to each system, those bleeders came in mighty handy. Darn good idea from Kwak to add them.
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If I'm flushing the system just to change fluid, I don't touch them. However, when I put on my Heli ST bars and had to add extension lines to each system, those bleeders came in mighty handy. Darn good idea from Kwak to add them.
Thanks Jim, now I have to find time to change my brake and clutch fluids. Without even looking a the bike, what plastics, if any I need to remove to access the rear brake master cylinder reservoir? On one of my other bikes, it takes a lot of work to get to it.
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The rear master is under the seat from what I recall. No need to take any plastics off. Which reminds me, I need to flush the rear brake and I need to go by the Kwak dealer and get some brake fluid. I've used all mine up with the ST installation.
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The rear master is under the seat from what I recall. No need to take any plastics off. Which reminds me, I need to flush the rear brake and I need to go by the Kwak dealer and get some brake fluid. I've used all mine up with the ST installation.
correct, rear brake master cylinder reservoir is under the seat.
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Does the cowling need removed to access the clutch bleeder? I looked under Constance's skirt tonight to see if I could see it but could not.
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You know, I just did mine...I did remove the left upper cowling to get to mine but that's all I did. That's on an 08. Have no idea on 10 or above.
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You know, I just did mine...I did remove the left upper cowling to get to mine but that's all I did. That's on an 08. Have no idea on 10 or above.
Bummer. I don't think I want to tackle this myself then. I don't have much patients fitting plastic bits together.
Thanks for the info.
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I don't believe you have to take off the tupperware to get to the clutch bleeder. It's right in front of and above the shifter. Right by the Idle adjuster.
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I like the extra room. Plus I have the foam heat blockers. I guess you could do it without taking a panel off but it's so easy to get the extra room, why not. It's no big whup to take it off and put it back. Whatever floats yer boat.
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And don't forget that there are two bleeders on the back brake, one on the inside and one on the outside of the caliper.
:o oopsies. well something else to do after work today. did the front, clutch, and "outside" rear about a week ago. heh
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I don't believe you have to take off the tupperware to get to the clutch bleeder. It's right in front of and above the shifter. Right by the Idle adjuster.
+1 No need to remove any plastic to bleed the clutch.
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Show off!
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;D
I can do the exhaust header nuts too
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Aaaaaargh!
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+1 No need to remove any plastic to bleed the clutch.
:goodpost: I just did mine yesterday and no need to remove any Tupperware unless your bored and just need something extra to do...
Funny thing though intermittently my garage door would close when pulling in the clutch lever during the bleeding process... I was very surprised and thought it must be a neighbor or something playing a joke on me but nope. It would happen over and over only when pulling in the clutch lever... I took the key fob and cell phone in the house to ensure they were not the problem and it continued whenever I pulled in the clutch. I just gave up and unplugged the garage door opener until I completed the job. Crazy electronic things!! lol
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You just want people to go in their garage and pull the clutch lever to see if the doors go up or down, don't you? Well, I tried and they didn't go up or down. I hope you are happy! ;)
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You just want people to go in their garage and pull the clutch lever to see if the doors go up or down, don't you? Well, I tried and they didn't go up or down. I hope you are happy! ;)
:rotflmao:
Sucker!!!
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:goodpost: I just did mine yesterday and no need to remove any Tupperware unless your bored and just need something extra to do...
Funny thing though intermittently my garage door would close when pulling in the clutch lever during the bleeding process... I was very surprised and thought it must be a neighbor or something playing a joke on me but nope. It would happen over and over only when pulling in the clutch lever... I took the key fob and cell phone in the house to ensure they were not the problem and it continued whenever I pulled in the clutch. I just gave up and unplugged the garage door opener until I completed the job. Crazy electronic things!! lol
That's a rare optional factory feature. Consider yourself lucky!
Now tell us, does it work from outside the garage too?
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I believe the manual says change the clutch and brake fluid every two years. I noticed on my morning ride, that the color of the brake fluid still looks clear while looking at it through the little site window. but the clutch fluid is very dark, almost black looking through the plastic window.
only had the bike for 10 month, almost 10k miles on it.
should the clutch fluid be changed more often or just go the two years?
http://youtu.be/cegdOZfo-Qg (http://youtu.be/cegdOZfo-Qg)
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That's a rare optional factory feature. Consider yourself lucky!
Now tell us, does it work from outside the garage too?
Nope won't do it outside the garage and now that Iv'e unplugged the opener for awhile the problem has not reappeared. Very strange.....
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Nope won't do it outside the garage and now that Iv'e unplugged the opener for awhile the problem has not reappeared. Very strange.....
I don't suppose you've re-wired you garage door opener so it works from the high beam push to pass switch did you?
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Nope won't do it outside the garage and now that Iv'e unplugged the opener for awhile the problem has not reappeared. Very strange.....
Was the remote for the opener in a pocket that you forgot about (pushing it randomly while working the lever)? Or maybe someone is just messing with you...
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Nope won't do it outside the garage and now that Iv'e unplugged the opener for awhile the problem has not reappeared. Very strange.....
Your SO wasn't giggling for no apparent reason when you got back in the house was she?
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Your SO wasn't giggling for no apparent reason when you got back in the house was she?
:offtopic:
A while back I ended up replacing the garage door opener because the old one kept messing with the wife; I could not find nothing wrong with the old one whatsoever and that just pissed her off to no end..... She has trouble with garden hoses too though! :rotflmao:
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:offtopic:
A while back I ended up replacing the garage door opener because the old one kept messing with the wife; I could not find nothing wrong with the old one whatsoever and that just pissed her off to no end..... She has trouble with garden hoses too though! :rotflmao:
You gotta keep an eye on them garden hoses, specially the green ones...
Kink free they tell you, don't you believe it for a second!
(http://www.greenrightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/gardenhoses.jpg)
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Kink free? Does that mean they just lay there?
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Kink free? Does that mean they just lay there?
Ask Ray, he'll tell you all about it.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Helmfrid-sofa4_Touched.JPG/205px-Helmfrid-sofa4_Touched.JPG)
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You gotta keep an eye on them garden hoses, specially the green ones...
Kink free they tell you, don't you believe it for a second!
(http://www.greenrightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/gardenhoses.jpg)
They're all liars. I bought a 'kink free' hose from Lowes and all it does is kink........*&$*&^$*&$ piece of cra*.
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They're all liars. I bought a 'kink free' hose from Lowes and all it does is kink........*&$*&^$*&$ piece of cra*.
A green hose right?
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You gotta keep an eye on them garden hoses, specially the green ones...
No for her they just don't work.... As in turn on faucet and water don't come out, went bought another one and it don't work either!
Wait for it...
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No for her they just don't work.... As in turn on faucet and water don't come out, went bought another one and it don't work either!
Wait for it...
;D
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A green hose right?
No, black.
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soaker hose?
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Nope, regular run of the mill kink free...
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Kink free? Does that mean they just lay there?
:rotflmao:
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This entire conversation has gotten out of hand!
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Indubitably....
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Here is a quick comparo. Just under 5000 miles.