Front engine mount bracket doesn't like up.... part duex

[JetJock]

My two pesos' since I have not done any of this, but . . . RED Loctite? Is that actually spec'd in the manual? There are very few damn parts that ever require that, and it seems wrong that motor mounts would be one of them. You need either a massive amount of leverage or a propane torch to heat up parts that have red Loctite on them.

And you MUST clean the threads on any parts that have ever had any Loctite on them, whatever the color. This is probably why the one poster complained about how fast it got too tight. Old Loctite has to be removed or you won't just get bad torque readings but you risk damaging the threads, the part, the fastener itself.

[basmntdweller]

My two pesos' since I have not done any of this, but . . . RED Loctite? Is that actually spec'd in the manual? There are very few damn parts that ever require that, and it seems wrong that motor mounts would be one of them. You need either a massive amount of leverage or a propane torch to heat up parts that have red Loctite on them.

And you MUST clean the threads on any parts that have ever had any Loctite on them, whatever the color. This is probably why the one poster complained about how fast it got too tight. Old Loctite has to be removed or you won't just get bad torque readings but you risk damaging the threads, the part, the fastener itself.

Very true for actual red loctite but may manufacturers use different colors for thread locking compounds. Red isn't always permanent variety in other brands. I have that red is for very small fasteners that will need to be removable and some green that is permanent where green is normally cylindrical bonding. Who knows what Kawi used and what it's red properties actually are.

Matt

[Breaker19]

I HATE it when holes won't line up! I just grease 'em up and push harder... 

[Jeremy Mitchell]

I HATE it when holes won't line up! I just grease 'em up and push harder... 

I have been married for 12 years and have never had good luck with that method!  Makes for a lonely remainder of the evening........

[Conrad]

I have been married for 12 years and have never had good luck with that method!  Makes for a lonely remainder of the evening........

+1

And possibly the next day too. 35 years for me.

[Caffeinated]

Thank you for bringing this thread back to life. In the process of trying to install the Canyon Cages yesterday, the upper right side bold would not go in, due to the hole being slightly of.  The original one came out, but it was VERY tight, and it must have been binding on the bracket. the engine is slightly higher than the bracket hole.  Unfortunately I may have buggered up the threads in the engine, so I'll have to get a hold of a thread restorer to see if I can bring them back.  The original bolt went back in, but was tight again. Also the top rear mount that runs through the frame looks to be further forward than it should be. I would not go all the way in by its self with out using the nut on the other site to pull it.

I'll have to go through the complete engine mounting loosen and re-torqueing procedure to see if they will line up.

[C1xRider]

Thank you for bringing this thread back to life. In the process of trying to install the Canyon Cages yesterday, the upper right side bold would not go in, due to the hole being slightly of.  The original one came out, but it was VERY tight, and it must have been binding on the bracket. the engine is slightly higher than the bracket hole.  Unfortunately I may have buggered up the threads in the engine, so I'll have to get a hold of a thread restorer to see if I can bring them back.  The original bolt went back in, but was tight again. Also the top rear mount that runs through the frame looks to be further forward than it should be. I would not go all the way in by its self with out using the nut on the other site to pull it.

I'll have to go through the complete engine mounting loosen and re-torqueing procedure to see if they will line up.

If it behaves like mine did, once you break loose the second rear bolt (after loosening both rear nuts), you should here a loud 'clunk' as the engine drops into place.

Let us know if it does, since so far I'm the only one to try this that's actually posted the results here.

[RBX QB]

Thank you for bringing this thread back to life. In the process of trying to install the Canyon Cages yesterday, the upper right side bold would not go in, due to the hole being slightly of.  The original one came out, but it was VERY tight, and it must have been binding on the bracket. the engine is slightly higher than the bracket hole.  Unfortunately I may have buggered up the threads in the engine, so I'll have to get a hold of a thread restorer to see if I can bring them back.  The original bolt went back in, but was tight again. Also the top rear mount that runs through the frame looks to be further forward than it should be. I would not go all the way in by its self with out using the nut on the other site to pull it.

I'll have to go through the complete engine mounting loosen and re-torqueing procedure to see if they will line up.

Ditto for me... I could see all of the threads in the engine, but they were definitely getting close to the top edge of the bracket. Got the original bolt back in, but the MCE bolt is trashed and needs replacing. I'm going to try to find an appropriate tap to clean the rest of the locktite out, then replace the bolt with one (hopefully) just a little longer to compensate for the gummed threads. I can see the  back of the bolt location (from the other side of the bike), and the factory bolt does not extend all the way to the inboard edge of that engine casing, so I'm optimistic that a longer bolt will yield enough engaged threads to compensate for the ones I killed (and no moving parts back there in case the bolt peeks out)

If it behaves like mine did, once you break loose the second rear bolt (after loosening both rear nuts), you should here a loud 'clunk' as the engine drops into place.

.

To be completely clear, the rear lower is the nut hiding behind the shifter linkage, correct? I wish the diagram in the manual was about 4 times larger so it was clearer to me. But, I'll still wait for Caffeinated to respond, since it seems he's at least 24 hours ahead of me on this.

[C1xRider]

To be completely clear, the rear lower is the nut hiding behind the shifter linkage, correct? I wish the diagram in the manual was about 4 times larger so it was clearer to me. But, I'll still wait for Caffeinated to respond, since it seems he's at least 24 hours ahead of me on this.

Correct, the rear lower nut is hiding behind the shifter.  You need to loosen both rear nuts, then break loose the bolts from the right side (using a 6mm Allen wrench, as I recall) .

[Caffeinated]

I may be ahead but I'm real slow...I'm heading over to a buddy's house this weekend that has every tool know to man to run a thread restorer though the engine case.  I was able to get the stock bolt back in so I could continue to ride

I can see the  back of the bolt location (from the other side of the bike), and the factory bolt does not extend all the way to the inboard edge of that engine casing, so I'm optimistic that a longer bolt will yield enough engaged threads to compensate for the ones I killed (and no moving parts back there in case the bolt peeks out)

That's the same for me as well. wondering if on some bikes the threads do not extend all the way through. When I pulled out the MCE 60MM bolt after putting WAY to much torque on it, there was metal (aluminum?) filling 3-4 threads on the end of the bolt. This is a 12.9 hardened bolt, so it should be able to cut right through aluminum I would think. I'm thinking now that maybe the treads did not get messed up, but that it was cutting threads at the other end of the hole?

Correct, the rear lower nut is hiding behind the shifter.  You need to loosen both rear nuts, then break loose the bolts from the right side (using a 6mm Allen wrench, as I recall) .

For clarification C1xRider, were all the engine mount bolts loosened before you loosened the bottom rear bolt?

[The Pope]

This "might" help.

[C1xRider]

For clarification C1xRider, were all the engine mount bolts loosened before you loosened the bottom rear bolt?

Yes they were.  The 2 front bolts were completely removed (even the front bracket bolts were loose), and then loosen both rear bolts.

[Caffeinated]

Finally got back to the Canyon install and my bolt issue.  I went through the procedures above, and loosened the front brackets as well. Never heard a clunk or actually saw the engine move, except with a jack under it.  I was able to move the brackets enough to find a better alignment, but I thing the real issues was that the front tire was turned to the side.  When the tire is turned the center stand twists and the bike moves. the center stand is directly attached to the frame and engine right below the lower engine mount. That twisting must cause the engine to raise a small amount causing the front mounting bolts to bind and not align correctly. Once the the front was pointing forward, and I jiggled the front brackets everything lined up so there was not binding of the bolts.

On a side note, I ran a tap through the threads on the right side mount to hopefully restore them, since I managed to strip some of the end threads. Thought it worked ok...guess I was wrong. Can't get the right side torqued too 44 ft-lbs without it popping over.  I'll have to see about putting a thread healer core in there to fix it.

[C1xRider]

Finally got back to the Canyon install and my bolt issue.  I went through the procedures above, and loosened the front brackets as well. Never heard a clunk or actually saw the engine move, except with a jack under it.  I was able to move the brackets enough to find a better alignment, but I thing the real issues was that the front tire was turned to the side.  When the tire is turned the center stand twists and the bike moves. the center stand is directly attached to the frame and engine right below the lower engine mount. That twisting must cause the engine to raise a small amount causing the front mounting bolts to bind and not align correctly. Once the the front was pointing forward, and I jiggled the front brackets everything lined up so there was not binding of the bolts.

On a side note, I ran a tap through the threads on the right side mount to hopefully restore them, since I managed to strip some of the end threads. Thought it worked ok...guess I was wrong. Can't get the right side torqued too 44 ft-lbs without it popping over.  I'll have to see about putting a thread healer core in there to fix it.

Interesting note about front wheel position affecting engine position.  I never considered that, as mine was on the center stand with the wheel pointed straight ahead, and I had no reason to move it.

Also, I did not have a jack under mine.  If you had a jack under the engine when you loosened the rear bolts, then obviously you would not hear it drop.

Bummer about the stripped treads, but as you already know, a Heli-coil should take care of it.

I am curious about one thing, when you were able to jiggle the front brackets and see the holes line up, did you have a jack under the engine supporting it?  Mine did not, and the holes were dead center in the brackets.

[Caffeinated]

Interesting note about front wheel position affecting engine position.  I never considered that, as mine was on the center stand with the wheel pointed straight ahead, and I had no reason to move it.

Also, I did not have a jack under mine.  If you had a jack under the engine when you loosened the rear bolts, then obviously you would not hear it drop.

Bummer about the stripped treads, but as you already know, a Heli-coil should take care of it.

I am curious about one thing, when you were able to jiggle the front brackets and see the holes line up, did you have a jack under the engine supporting it?  Mine did not, and the holes were dead center in the brackets.

No jack under there until I had the front bolts out, and had already messed with the rear bolts.  Just seeing what it would do, and how the engine would move. even after moving the brackets and keeping the wheel straight, the hole are not dead center, but at least now there is enough room so the bolt wont bind on the bracket/

I've got not experience with the Heli-Coils, or Keenserts.  Any recommendation on which is better/easier to install, and will allow it to be torqued to 44ft-lbs?  Wondering if It could be installed with the bracket in place, or would I have to remove it to get direct access to the threads?

[C1xRider]

No jack under there until I had the front bolts out, and had already messed with the rear bolts.  Just seeing what it would do, and how the engine would move. even after moving the brackets and keeping the wheel straight, the hole are not dead center, but at least now there is enough room so the bolt wont bind on the bracket/

I've got not experience with the Heli-Coils, or Keenserts.  Any recommendation on which is better/easier to install, and will allow it to be torqued to 44ft-lbs?  Wondering if It could be installed with the bracket in place, or would I have to remove it to get direct access to the threads?

I've never used "Keenserts", so can't comment on them.  I have used a few Heli-coils in the past, and they've always worked great.  I've even put a tiny amount of Loctite Red on the outside of the Heli-coil threads, to help insure they stay put.

As for the bracket, I would remove it.  I'm sure it will be much easier to install a thread repair product, that is likely larger than the bracket hole, if the bracket is out of the way.

[Caffeinated]

I've never used "Keenserts", so can't comment on them.  I have used a few Heli-coils in the past, and they've always worked great.  I've even put a tiny amount of Loctite Red on the outside of the Heli-coil threads, to help insure they stay put.

As for the bracket, I would remove it.  I'm sure it will be much easier to install a thread repair product, that is likely larger than the bracket hole, if the bracket is out of the way.

Ok, thanks.  Can't seem to find any info about Heli-Coils and how much torque is allowed. Keenserts are marketed as easy, and no extra tools needed. They are also solid inserts, vs the sping coil.
I'll keep searching.

[basmntdweller]

Ok, thanks.  Can't seem to find any info about Heli-Coils and how much torque is allowed. Keenserts are marketed as easy, and no extra tools needed. They are also solid inserts, vs the sping coil.
I'll keep searching.

Heli-Coils are far stronger than the original aluminum threads in the engine casing. Generally speaking, even on steel parts, the Heli-coil insert will be stronger than the original threads plus they are much more resistant to damage and wear from repeated assembly/disassembly. I have never been a fan of Keenserts except in a few very specific applications.

Matt

[Caffeinated]

Heli-Coils are far stronger than the original aluminum threads in the engine casing. Generally speaking, even on steel parts, the Heli-coil insert will be stronger than the original threads plus they are much more resistant to damage and wear from repeated assembly/disassembly. I have never been a fan of Keenserts except in a few very specific applications.

Matt

Good to know. Thanks.