Throwin' it out there, Up-shifting is smooth and easy without clutch.......... is it good or bad for the bike? I use the clutch always to downshift............

What do you think?

Z

If you could shift perfectly with no load on the transmission, it probably would not be bad. I can't think of a single scenario where it would be 'good' for the bike.

Risk/Return tradeoff:  for those times when you don't manage to do it perfectly, you run the risk of major transmission damage over time. What's your return for doing that, less wear and tear on your fingers?

Although I've shifted without using the clutch on both cars and bikes to see if I could do it (and to get home one time when a VW van popped it's clutch cable), I don't normally do it in order to make the transmission last as long as possible. If I'm going to wear something out, clutch discs are cheaper and easier to replace than transmissions.

I Clutchless shift alot. I use the clutch 1st to 2nd, and downshifting. it works great, nice smooth qiute shifting.

take a look at this video. It will explain hoe to do it properly.

Clutchless gear changing, gear shifting or upshifting.

Hoe?

Rarely use the clutch on an upshift. Always use the clutch on a downshift. Never had an issue.

Throwin' it out there, Up-shifting is smooth and easy without clutch.......... is it good or bad for the bike? I use the clutch always to downshift............  What do you think?

Clutchless shifting doesn't hurt the bike at all, either up or down, as long as it is smooth.  Of course, downshifting clutchless is difficult, so I rarely do that.  But I upshift all the time without a clutch after 2nd.  It is quite common.

Hoe?

Hey, my bike didn't come with a hoe. WTF

Hence my query...  An unofficial accessory.

Can we get the hoe to wash the bike?

Hoe with a clutch? 

Hoe with a clutch? 

 

Pud

Routinely up and downshift clutchless.  Becomes second nature.  Working on 56,000 miles on the '14.

Hoe with a clutch? 

Pud

? Not your sister is she?

I always use the clutch on my C14.  On my Z1000, I will once in a blue moon (or at the drag strip) not use it for upshifts.

Several years ago, however, my clutch cable broke!  That was not a fun time learning how to downshift on the spot in stop and go traffic... .

 Upshift without the clutch is possible because we have what was one termed shift dogs that act as a brake between one gear and the other. The dogs work against the momentum or torque to synchronize one gear to the other.  The dogs work with and without the clutch being activated but here is the kicker, the more they have to work the faster they wear.  The worst example is say you are preparing to shift without the clutch and you start to put pressure on the shifter but you are still on the throttle for period of time before you drop the throttle back and the bike upshifts. All the time you have pressure on the shifter those dogs are wearing.  I will ask one question, would you treat your brakes in this fashion?  Sometimes understanding is the boobie prize in life.

[...]here is the kicker, the more they have to work the faster they wear.  The worst example is say you are preparing to shift without the clutch and you start to put pressure on the shifter but you are still on the throttle for period of time before you drop the throttle back and the bike upshifts. All the time you have pressure on the shifter those dogs are wearing.  I will ask one question, would you treat your brakes in this fashion?

No, but I don't treat my transmission in that fashion, either.  One shouldn't clutchless upshift while still on the throttle, and should start pushing on the shifter until the it the correct time/rev to shift.  And under those PROPER conditions, it should cause no more wear than using the clutch.  Theoretically, it should produce less wear in total, because there is no wear on the clutch...

Though I am sure you can do it without damaging anything, I'm not sure what you gain. You could always just pull the clutch just until it disengages instead of pulling it all the way to the bar, you can shift a lot more smoothly that way and quicker. I have clutchless shifted in the past, but just pulling the lever to the point it disengages seems to work better. I did that even on the dragstrip with my zx1000R. However, it is your bike, ride it how you want and enjoy it.

I use the clutch routinely, up and down. Would rather replace some friction plates than have bent shift forks, or whatnot.

Max,  I was just making a statement not an accusation.  I was saying that was the worst case of abuse, but even so however briefly the shift is done, it will cause more wear than using the clutch. It may be so minor as to make the whole thing an exercise in microns but the two gears have to be at the same speed and that is more efficient if the clutch separates the engine from input of the transmission.

After you master the dynamics and everything is working in harmony, it is almost second nature to upshift w/o the clutch, especially on a butter smooth unit like the C-14. Kawasaki's seem to upshift so smoothly with no effort; the Yamaha's and Honda's always seem a little more clunky. Downshifting w/o a clutch is more of a chore, and I'm not as comfortable doing that unless in an emergency. Been doing this 45 years with cars, bikes, and tractors with nary a clutch replacement ever.