Engine Failure??? on C10

[DeansZG]

You could use hardened shoe leather as a rod bearing too.....   

  Now you're showing your age there Tony!   I wonder if they teach that method in any of the engine shop classes anymore? I wonder how many of the "youngsters" here on the forum know anything about this repair procedure?

[T Cro ®]

  Now you're showing your age there Tony!   I wonder if they teach that method in any of the engine shop classes anymore? I wonder how many of the "youngsters" here on the forum know anything about this repair procedure?

Whoops...... 

I wonder if they still toss charged caps at the wall to see if you can get them to arc out or has that right of passage been forgotten in shop class too?

[DeansZG]

Whoops......    I wonder if they still toss charged caps at the wall to see if you can get them to arc out or has that right of passage been forgotten in shop class too?

At least they tossed them against the wall for you, our instructors would charge them up & leave them on the desk & wait to see who would be the 1st idiot student to try & move it out of the way.

[Outback_Jon]

At least they tossed them against the wall for you, our instructors would charge them up & leave them on the desk & wait to see who would be the 1st idiot student to try & move it out of the way.

Wrap some wire around them properly, and toss them to someone instead. 

[snarf]

Wrap some wire around them properly, and toss them to someone instead.

+1 in the service we would slip them down inside someones boot. Always a good laugh.

[Outback_Jon]

+1 in the service we would slip them down inside someones boot. Always a good laugh.

  Yeah.  I've wondered what would happen if you used one of those 1 Farad capacitors that are used for car amplifiers.   

[qman]

Well,

I told the fellow I would put an engine in for him. He's a really nice fellow and his son bought this thing to ride back and forth to his lady friend from college and who am I to stand between a man and his stuff.   He found one for 500.  and it is near me so I had him bring the bike back to me and I will swap them out for him.  I hope I haven't bitten off more than I could chew.  I have replaced bike motors before, but never one with a drive shaft.  If it is like a car, then I'm in like Flint, otherwise, I may be a while.

Thanks for the advice, if there is anything I should know about changing out this powerplant, feel free to overwhelm me with data.  I searched for motor replacement and did not find anything.  I'm assuming that is because they never fail.  I hope it's not because they are such a pain in the ass that it's impossible for a shade tree mech. to do.

YOU AREN"T LISTENING!!!
Once you put a wrench to that bike you are responsible for it. WALK AWAY!

[qman]

At least they tossed them against the wall for you, our instructors would charge them up & leave them on the desk & wait to see who would be the 1st idiot student to try & move it out of the way.

 

[RFH87_Connie]

Yes there is indeed a weak point on this design of motor; I've read of the same with the ZRX, ZZR and ZX motor too.

So, I walk into the shop to the parts counter to pick up a new upper hose to complete the engine swap.  The shop foreman happened to be up there too.  So I told him "Hey Shane, I threw a rod in my connie a few weeks ago."  He said "Number three"?  I said "Yep".  Then he told me its what they see when most kawi's throw a rod.  Bad oiling.

As far as I am concerned my engine was clean inside - at least no sludge.  Nice golden aluminum color.  Although when I got the bike the valve cover gasket had silicone seal on it along with the timing cover.  Perhaps a chunk was lodged somewhere. 

So all you engine guru's out there - is there a way to improve/prevent this?  Enlarge a galley, change to a different oil pump, don't run at 85-90mph for almost an hour and a half?  I think it was like 5,500rpm?  Is it even worth being concerned about it?

[Cybercraig]

So, I walk into the shop to the parts counter to pick up a new upper hose to complete the engine swap.  The shop foreman happened to be up there too.  So I told him "Hey Shane, I threw a rod in my connie a few weeks ago."  He said "Number three"?  I said "Yep".  Then he told me its what they see when most kawi's throw a rod.  Bad oiling.

As far as I am concerned my engine was clean inside - at least no sludge.  Nice golden aluminum color.  Although when I got the bike the valve cover gasket had silicone seal on it along with the timing cover.  Perhaps a chunk was lodged somewhere. 

So all you engine guru's out there - is there a way to improve/prevent this?  Enlarge a galley, change to a different oil pump, don't run at 85-90mph for almost an hour and a half?  I think it was like 5,500rpm?  Is it even worth being concerned about it?

No, it isn't. I cruise at 85-90mph when I ride out West. If you watch your oil level constantly and change it regularly and don't uncover the oil pick-up tube you should be fine. With this Kaw design Wheelies will uncover the tube even if the crankcase is full. Don't do wheelies! You want to be 100% safe from this event? Buy a Honda.

[Sparkie]

No, it isn't. I cruise at 85-90mph when I ride out West. If you watch your oil level constantly and change it regularly and don't uncover the oil pick-up tube you should be fine. With this Kaw design Wheelies will uncover the tube even if the crankcase is full. Don't do wheelies! You want to be 100% safe from this event? Buy a Honda.

If you have an '06' like mine, don't brake too hard either or it will lose oil pressure. I guess I don't need to worry about upgrading the brakes cuz I can't use em that hard anyway.  Mark

[Boomer]

If you have an '06' like mine, don't brake too hard either or it will lose oil pressure. I guess I don't need to worry about upgrading the brakes cuz I can't use em that hard anyway.  Mark

Sounds more like you have a loose connection on the Oil pressure sensor.
When you brake hard the Oil pressure light comes on?
The Oil Pressure sensor is lower left on the motor, near the neutral light switch.
The connection sometimes gets crudded up or the wire gets displaced.
No way oil pressure will change with braking unless there is something seriously wrong with oil pump.

[Sparkie]

Sounds more like you have a loose connection on the Oil pressure sensor.
When you brake hard the Oil pressure light comes on?
The Oil Pressure sensor is lower left on the motor, near the neutral light switch.
The connection sometimes gets crudded up or the wire gets displaced.
No way oil pressure will change with braking unless there is something seriously wrong with oil pump.

Not a loose connection. This is a known problem for some 06 model year bikes. It is a problem with the oil pump and is being investigated by a cog member now. Hard braking and oil changes will sometimes lead to the oil light staying on as the pump can't reestablish pressure. It either airlocks or cavitates. It can be a PIA or worse...  Mark

[Boomer]

Not a loose connection. This is a known problem for some 06 model year bikes. It is a problem with the oil pump and is being investigated by a cog member now. Hard braking and oil changes will sometimes lead to the oil light staying on as the pump can't reestablish pressure. It either airlocks or cavitates. It can be a PIA or worse...  Mark

That's not good. Why did they change it? The Oil Pump was fine from 86-05.
Perhaps they were trying to "fix" the #3 big end oiling issue?

[Sparkie]

That's not good. Why did they change it? The Oil Pump was fine from 86-05.
Perhaps they were trying to "fix" the #3 big end oiling issue?

They didn't change anything on the pump design. One of the idea's from some members is maybe using out of spec parts for the last of the model build. One of the guys here is currently investigating and will post his results soon. Evidently switching out to an earlier year pump solves the problem. Mark

[Daggett]

DONE, easiest motor I have ever changed.  Done in about 4 hours with my son in law helping.  Guy took it to a mechanic afterward, he cleaned the carbs, and now his kid has a good running Concours again.  I dont regret telling him I would put the motor in, not in the least.  Even though it was an unforseeable problem I think it was the right thing to do.  Maybe if more people actually help people out when they have a problem, there wont be as many lawsuits and confrontations.   The guy was not mechanically inclined and would have probably spent another 500 to 1000 dollars, maybe more, depending on who he had to hire to put the replacement motor in for him.  People on these types of forums offer help, assistance, and guidance at the drop of a hat but in a situation like this a lot of you were telling me to cut bait and run.  Sorry, I dont see it that way.  I'm conservative by nature but was raised in a manner that you back up your choices and words with actions befitting an honest man.  The guy did tell me when he picked up the bike that he thought I went above and beyond what he would have expected of someone selling a used bike so I'm happy with the outcome.

Anyhow, thanks for the tips and advice, I was listening, but that motor came out easy and went in easy.  The hardest problem was, like one fellow said, getting that little pin to engage.  Other than that, no worries.

[Roadhound]

You did good, be proud.

[JDM]

DONE, easiest motor I have ever changed.  Done in about 4 hours with my son in law helping.  Guy took it to a mechanic afterward, he cleaned the carbs, and now his kid has a good running Concours again.  I dont regret telling him I would put the motor in, not in the least.  Even though it was an unforseeable problem I think it was the right thing to do.  Maybe if more people actually help people out when they have a problem, there wont be as many lawsuits and confrontations.   The guy was not mechanically inclined and would have probably spent another 500 to 1000 dollars, maybe more, depending on who he had to hire to put the replacement motor in for him.  People on these types of forums offer help, assistance, and guidance at the drop of a hat but in a situation like this a lot of you were telling me to cut bait and run.  Sorry, I dont see it that way.  I'm conservative by nature but was raised in a manner that you back up your choices and words with actions befitting an honest man.  The guy did tell me when he picked up the bike that he thought I went above and beyond what he would have expected of someone selling a used bike so I'm happy with the outcome.

Anyhow, thanks for the tips and advice, I was listening, but that motor came out easy and went in easy.  The hardest problem was, like one fellow said, getting that little pin to engage.  Other than that, no worries.

Daggett, I would trust you with anything I have, with two exceptions, my wife and my Connie.  My wife is young and my Connie is old and it would easy to throw a Rod in either one of them.  

[snarf]

Daggett, I would trust you with anything I have, with two exceptions, my wife and my Connie.  My wife is young and my Connie is old and it would easy to throw a Rod in either one of them.

[vinny]

Well done Daggett!
Nice to see someone really stands up to be counted - a lot of guys would have just said not my problem. I agree with your sentiments about doing the right thing and litigation.
You are a real stand up guy!