Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Mister Tee on December 18, 2011, 01:13:22 PM
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Ok so get up at zero dark thirty and it's hella cold out there, and in the garage. I just returned from six weeks in Southeast Asia so my bike has sat all that time. Everything looks fine, tires appear hard, and I'm out for a short ride. Fire up the bike (whew, it still cranks) and take off. TPMS shows 38 F 41 R. A tad lower than I want, but fine for now.
The bike just doesn't feel right. Steering is heavy, it just feels off. Granted, I've been tooling around on a 125 cc Honda Elite motorbike for the last six weeks, so I chalk it up to that. Later in the day, when it's warmer and I feel like screwing around in the garage, I fire up the compressor so I can fill all tires that need filling. My slime gauge reads 32 F 38 R (WTF?) so I fill it back up to 42/42, which is where I like it. Get back on the bike. Rides like it should, feels good again. TPMS is reading 47/47.
TPMS so far has been fairly accurate, to within a couple pounds of a gauge, but for whatever reason it's really off now. The only thing that is different between now and six weeks ago is that it was a whole lot warmer outside. Anyone else notice that?
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Same thing happened to me. Once it got cold out the TPMS read 3-5 lbs higher than the Accu-Gauge I use. Took the gauge inside for a day to warm it up and now it's back to being only 1 lb off. I attribute it to the gauge being affected by the temp rather than the TPMS. Maybe it's a little of both.
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I juste went out, it's about 32F out and my TPS is spot on. I have always had no issue with it, it reads the same as the gauge I use no matter the temp.
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I suggest a forum search. The system compensates for temperature. Don't ask me to explain it - it's magic. I'll try to find it.
Here... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1248.msg12456#msg12456 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1248.msg12456#msg12456)
BTW, the chart does not jive with what you are seeing, but it's good information anyway.
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I suggest a forum search. The system compensates for temperature. Don't ask me to explain it - it's magic. I'll try to find it.
Here... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1248.msg12456#msg12456 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1248.msg12456#msg12456)
BTW, the chart does not jive with what you are seeing, but it's good information anyway.
Yes, I know about forum searches! I am familiar with the temperature compensation feature of TPMS. I am observing what I believe to be an, I need a word. Anomoly. I have observed an anomoly. That is the justification I am using to start a new topic.
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Yes, I know about forum searches! I am familiar with the temperature compensation feature of TPMS. I am observing what I believe to be an, I need a word. Anomoly. I have observed an anomoly. That is the justification I am using to start a new topic.
Wow, didn't mean to offend you with my reply ;)
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Sorry - I mod on another site and call people out all day long for not doing forum searches. I was half cranky and half joking!
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The accuracy of my TPMS has changed over time. It changed a lot with my last rear tire change. it now reads 3-4 psi low. Whenever I check my tires I always match it to the TPMS so I have an idea of what the actual pressure is.
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I bet it was some what warmer 6 weeks ago. 6 weeks ago I would still be riding. ;)
As the temps go down so does the air pressure in your tires. (cars too) I like to have the proper T/P when I take off but normally once the tires warm up a bit, the sensors get closer to being what I want. I've seen the T/Ps go up and down just by going from warmer outside air to colder outside air or visa versa while out on a ride.
Could be the battery in your fob is getting weak.
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Sorry - I mod on another site and call people out all day long for not doing forum searches. I was half cranky and half joking!
I wasn't cranky, but I was only half joking as well (hence the ;)).
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Mine seem more 'off' with the cold as well... I don't worry about it. I check with the gage before starting out. I only use the TPMS for wild swings down. I wouldn't trust it for anything else.
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Mine read low in warm (85 degree plus) temps. In the 30-50 range its accurate. I have a decent Factory KTM gauge and the TPS is always 3-4 psi lower than it is. I did notice at 12 degrees my front tps gave me a low battery warning.
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I only use the TPMS for wild swings down.
+1
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the TPMS on my '08 has been inaccurate from day one. however, it is consistantly inaccurate. TPMS actually reads 4 pounds higher than any of my gauges. It is not a feature that I will spend any money to fix when the warranty expires.
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The tire pressure sensors are temperature compensated and will not read the same as a normal (not temperature compensated) tire pressure gauge. If the tires were pressurized to 42 PSI at 70 degrees F for example, when the temp. drops to 40 F the pressure will drop to something like 39 PSI, which an external gauge will show. The TPS sensors will continue to show the pressure is something like 42 PSI at the lower temp. So if you inflate the tires to the higher pressure at a lower temperature, the TPS will show a higher reading because of the low temperature.
The reason the sensors are temperature compensating is so that the pressures do not read very high when riding the bike- it would tend to put the owner off and would probably lead to him / her stopping and reducing the tire's pressure while hot (which is not the right thing to do). Compensating for temperature is a judgment call that the chip manufacturer made when designing the controller.
Brian
Ok so get up at zero dark thirty and it's hella cold out there, and in the garage. I just returned from six weeks in Southeast Asia so my bike has sat all that time. Everything looks fine, tires appear hard, and I'm out for a short ride. Fire up the bike (whew, it still cranks) and take off. TPMS shows 38 F 41 R. A tad lower than I want, but fine for now.
The bike just doesn't feel right. Steering is heavy, it just feels off. Granted, I've been tooling around on a 125 cc Honda Elite motorbike for the last six weeks, so I chalk it up to that. Later in the day, when it's warmer and I feel like screwing around in the garage, I fire up the compressor so I can fill all tires that need filling. My slime gauge reads 32 F 38 R (WTF?) so I fill it back up to 42/42, which is where I like it. Get back on the bike. Rides like it should, feels good again. TPMS is reading 47/47.
TPMS so far has been fairly accurate, to within a couple pounds of a gauge, but for whatever reason it's really off now. The only thing that is different between now and six weeks ago is that it was a whole lot warmer outside. Anyone else notice that?
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The tire pressure sensors are temperature compensated and will not read the same as a normal (not temperature compensated) tire pressure gauge. If the tires were pressurized to 42 PSI at 70 degrees F for example, when the temp. drops to 40 F the pressure will drop to something like 39 PSI, which an external gauge will show. The TPS sensors will continue to show the pressure is something like 42 PSI at the lower temp. So if you inflate the tires to the higher pressure at a lower temperature, the TPS will show a higher reading because of the low temperature.
The reason the sensors are temperature compensating is so that the pressures do not read very high when riding the bike- it would tend to put the owner off and would probably lead to him / her stopping and reducing the tire's pressure while hot (which is not the right thing to do). Compensating for temperature is a judgment call that the chip manufacturer made when designing the controller.
Brian
Okay, I didn't quite understand temperature compensation. I previously thought it was just for device error compensation but what you are saying is that it normalizes the pressure to a standard temperature. I suppose I get the logic of it but I'm not sure I like that. If it gets cold, the pressure drops, and I want to put more air in to it to restore the lost pressure. And vice versa.
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Yep, that is why I mentioned it being a judgment call- there is no 'right' way to do it but many choices.
My opinion is that if the pressure indicated were not temperature corrected, a lot of people would be going nuts wondering and worrying about the fluctuating pressure as they rode. Some would try to adjust the pressure so it was the 'right' reading as the tires heated and cooled resulting in severely under inflated tires when running on the highway on a warm day. And most of the above would result in a lot of cranky calls to dealers and the mfg. regarding the fluctuating readings. Like Jack Nicholson said....' You can't handle the truth!' or something similar. :-)
Brian
Okay, I didn't quite understand temperature compensation. I previously thought it was just for device error compensation but what you are saying is that it normalizes the pressure to a standard temperature. I suppose I get the logic of it but I'm not sure I like that. If it gets cold, the pressure drops, and I want to put more air in to it to restore the lost pressure. And vice versa.
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<snip>
Like Jack Nicholson said....' You can't handle the truth!' or something similar. :-)
Brian
Perfect summation of the vast majority of the TPMS threads. :thumbs:
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Yep, that is why I mentioned it being a judgment call- there is no 'right' way to do it but many choices.
My opinion is that if the pressure indicated were not temperature corrected, a lot of people would be going nuts wondering and worrying about the fluctuating pressure as they rode. Some would try to adjust the pressure so it was the 'right' reading as the tires heated and cooled resulting in severely under inflated tires when running on the highway on a warm day. And most of the above would result in a lot of cranky calls to dealers and the mfg. regarding the fluctuating readings. Like Jack Nicholson said....' You can't handle the truth!' or something similar. :-)
Brian
Actually it was making me nuts wondering why pressure reading didn't change with changing conditions. I didn't know about the compensation feature. I always adjust my pressures just like the load rating molded onto the sidewall of the tire recommends... "cold".
Mark
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Was it this forum or another that discussed how the Temo gauge in a car always shows the same Temp until something is really wrong. The explanation I heard was if the guage showed the true temp, and people saw the fluctuations ie sitting still at the lights, then they would think there is a problem. So they design it to be steady eddie (technical term) to keep everyone calm.
So relax, be happy.
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After having been ill for the last 4 days and not riding anywhere. Went out to check the pressure before leaving for work. Had the Accu-Gage in the house and the pressure in both tires read 42 psi. Once I got rolling the bike read 44 psi then jumped to 45 almost immediately. I don't remember that happening in previous years but you have to trust your tire gauge is working correctly especially after cross checking with another you trust.
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Many manufacturers also design in inaccuracy for their fuel gauges and speedometers for similar reasons. My wife's Miata even has a "fake" oil pressure gauge!
As for TPS over 65,000 miles and five winters mine have changed During winters 2,3 and 4 (2008, 2009 and 2010) I got the low battery warning. This winter I have not gotten the warning so far, with many rides below 50 F and a couple in the mid 30s. Also, these "aged" TPS unit "wake-up" faster than they did before. Often within 30 yards as opposed to 1500 yards. This improved performance may be due to riding every day rather than age. Riding every day gives the batteries less time to form the passivation layer that causes the voltage drop.
Another interesting observation was noted during the two weeks I rode without a front TPS. Both displays would read --- psi for about a mile, then finally the rear would give a value. This suggests to me that the TPS was waiting for a response from the missing front - maybe compensation for variances in response time.
As far as innacurate in cold weather, I have not noticed that.