Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: YHSublime on September 21, 2018, 08:56:26 AM
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Hey all,
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I bought my ZG used 3 years ago, it's a 2013, and I have been super happy with everything, sans the gas cap, which I swapped out for one without a key! Yesterday I was riding, and the zipper of the pocket that was holding my fab came undone, and of course, the FAB had fallen out. I have retraced my ride, and there is no getting it back, it's gone.
The bike came with the stove pipe key (of course) and only one fab. I have been reading, but it sounds like there should have been a small 2.25"x1" emergency fab with a key in it as well, that only activates on the gas tank.
An expensive Uber ride home, and of course I wheel locked it, luckily in a residential neighborhood, but on the street, 45 min away from me. I reached out to the PO who says he never got the "spare" and he gave me the name of the dealership he got it from. Of course, this is like 4 years later, so I'm not confident in them pulling something out of the hat.
While I'm thankful that this bike is super hard to steal, I'm super frustrated about being in this situation, and not thinking about making copies or emergency fabs for situations just like this. What are my options?
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Tow it to the dealer and bend over. You're screwed dude.
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Follow this post:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23715.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23715.0)
Maybe PM the original poster, Chile62, and see how he makes out.
Good luck.
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but it sounds like there should have been a small 2.25"x1" emergency fab with a key in it as well, that only activates on the gas tank.
Not much help if you don't have it but the thin RFID only FOB you are speaking of will also activate the bike by putting it up against the front area of the stove knob. It would also have let the dealer program a new active FOB. But with neither FOB you will need a new ECU. :'(
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Tow it to the dealer and bend over. You're screwed dude.
I figured I should start lubing up. Expensive mistake, what's that they say about hindsight?
Follow this post:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23715.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23715.0)
Maybe PM the original poster, Chile62, and see how he makes out.
Good luck.
This is helpful, thank you very much. There's some comfort in knowing I'm not the only one with this gut wrenching problem.
Not much help if you don't have it but the thin RFID only FOB you are speaking of will also activate the bike by putting it up against the front area of the stove knob. It would also have let the dealer program a new active FOB. But with neither FOB you will need a new ECU. :'(
So there's the snowballs chance in hell that somebody from the past 4 years, be it the PO or the Dealer, has the RFID. Unfortunately, PO doesn't have annnny clue what I'm talking about, and the dealership, after talking to 5 people, said "You're looking for the spare key 4 years later, do you have any idea how many bikes we've sold since then?" After explaining to them a little further about my conundrum, they understood, but seeing as they didn't even know about the RFID, outcome looks gloomy.
I'm kicking myself for not doing a thorough reading of the manual when I bought it. I'm kicking myself for not just keeping the damn Fab in the "lock box" which I'd rather break open in case of an emergency or dead battery. Cheaper than the alternative, and is what the place the bike was bought from does as well. I asked if they had a procedure for tracking keys when the bikes came in, and they said they just put them into the lock box on the motorcycle.
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Common problem unfortunately. I was lucky when I got mine used since it came with 2 full-function FOB's. I guess Kawasaki changed the way they deliver bikes after the '09 models and started including the passive FOB as a backup.
Anyway, you are (most likely) going to have to replace the KIPASS ECU with a new/used one that has at least one FOB. If you can find a used one for your model year that is.
I have read in this forum about someone who had their RFID FOB cloned using an automobile key at a dealership. If you can find a dealer that knows how then I suggest you have several made. And, if you do find a dealer that can do it, let us know. I'd like to make a few spares myself.
Long story short:
1. Purchase a replacement KIPASS ECU w/at least one FOB.
2. Marry the ECU and FOB(s) to the bike. Requires KDS system and a visit to the dealer (trailer the bike?) unless you know someone with KDS.
Good luck. You'll get through this.
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I found this video last week that explains how the car key thing is done and shows it working. No KDS required as it clones the RFID chip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaFCRSicGM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaFCRSicGM) Unfortunately, he doesn't say which key blank to use and didn't respond to that question in the comments. I've tried contacting him but no luck. I've gone to 2 Denver area Ace Hardwares in the last week and after explaining to the clerks what it was all about they both checked with someone more experienced or a manager and was told, "no, we can't do it". Didn't even try to help find a key blank that would work. Maybe someone else can find a more helpful "think outside the box" Ace Hardware. I've got one more to try up in the foothills that has been more helpful in the past. If I get up there this weekend I'll see if they will try.
Of course this doesn't help the guys who are down to 0 fobs at the moment but could help others in the future.
Leo
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http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23202.msg296534#new (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23202.msg296534#new)
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This is a bit hysterical, but this is the way the new Gold Wing I just bought handles the lost FOB issue. It is really quite hysterical -- but at least they have provided an option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6KIo5NLzDE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6KIo5NLzDE)
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:rotflmao: :loco: :nuts: :doh: I like KIPASS. :chugbeer:
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I found this video last week that explains how the car key thing is done and shows it working. No KDS required as it clones the RFID chip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaFCRSicGM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaFCRSicGM) Unfortunately, he doesn't say which key blank to use and didn't respond to that question in the comments. I've tried contacting him but no luck. I've gone to 2 Denver area Ace Hardwares in the last week and after explaining to the clerks what it was all about they both checked with someone more experienced or a manager and was told, "no, we can't do it". Didn't even try to help find a key blank that would work. Maybe someone else can find a more helpful "think outside the box" Ace Hardware. I've got one more to try up in the foothills that has been more helpful in the past. If I get up there this weekend I'll see if they will try.
Of course this doesn't help the guys who are down to 0 fobs at the moment but could help others in the future.
Leo
I had a qualified locksmith clone my one & only fob a while ago. He used an Ilco TK100 which looks like the one in the vid.
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Indian has something a bit similar to start the bike in the event of the fob battery going out but the code can be changed to whatever you want it to be...4 or 5 digits and is input through the turn signal switch. Much easier to do than the Honda method.
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Indian has something a bit similar to start the bike in the event of the fob battery going out but the code can be changed to whatever you want it to be...4 or 5 digits and is input through the turn signal switch. Much easier to do than the Honda method.
Same for the Ducati Multistrada. You can operate the bike forever using just the pin. Takes about 10 seconds to enter it.
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My stepson is a locksmith. After seeing this thread I gave hime my passive fob and asked to clone it. It worked, he said it was easy. H said the chip costs $25. He said he would clone for $75 return shipping included if anyone is interested.
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Check the "For Sale" section. A refurbished one is listed.
Either way good luck and keep us posted on the outcome.
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When We Was Fab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVu6nPTVbBQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVu6nPTVbBQ)
:cool:
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I had a qualified locksmith clone my one & only fob a while ago. He used an Ilco TK100 which looks like the one in the vid.
Freddy, did he also cut the key section so it works in the locks? Thanks.
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I love that you're calling it a Fab :thumbs: :chugbeer:
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I love that you're calling it a Fab :thumbs: :chugbeer:
It's totally fab
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Check the "For Sale" section. A refurbished one is listed.
Either way good luck and keep us posted on the outcome.
it's from an '08
OP has a '13
won't interchange ..
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it's from an '08
OP has a '13
won't interchange ..
Why not?
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Why not?
The ECU's are not changeable between certain years because there were changes on the bike that were made (generation 1, 2, and 2.1).
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Understood but changes did not relate to the Kipass ECU. Different p/n for early and later due to 2 or 1 fob being supplied in the box. What else am I missing?
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Understood but changes did not relate to the Kipass ECU. Different p/n for early and later due to 2 or 1 fob being supplied in the box. What else am I missing?
There's more to it than a fob/ECU 'kit number', as changes in the program, and logic circuits were made also....
what you didn't notice is that the actual Ignition Switch has also been changed thru those interim change points, and this is how things 'communicate';
the actual ECU's, pretty much ALL come with ONE active FOB, the difference in the passive fob had little to do with anything, and the same P/FOB (credit card), can be programmed for any year, from '08 thru '18.
This is NOT so with the Active FOB's.. or so it seems, when looking at Kawasaki's MicroFiche... but, now we see some discrepancies, and parts being superseded.. which adds confusion...
breakdown of parts changes:
'08-'09
21175-0183 ECU
27006-0048 IGN SW. ('08 model)
27006-0060 IGN SW ('09 model)
21175-0181 FOB (2 pcs)
'10 thru '14
21175-0299 ECU
27006-0074 IGN SW.
21175-0296 FOB ACTIVE (1 pc)
21175-0256 FOB, Passive (1 pc)
'15 thru '17
21175-0730 ECU
27006-0601 IGN SW.
21175-0726 FOB ACTIVE (1 pc)
21175-0256 FOB, Passive (1 pc)
'18-
21175-0730 ECU
27006-0620 IGN SW
fobs, same as '15 thru '17
now, I did check Ron Ayers, as I was pricing, and see that in fact the original 2 ACTIVE FOBS (-0181 and -0296) have indeed been shown to be superseded by the -0726 p/n,
and also all years IGN SW p/n's have been superseded by the -0620 part...
The '08-'09 ECU's were replaced with -0729, for these 2 years only..
The '10-'14 -0299 ECU's were replaced by -0730 supposedly... making them the same for '10 thru '18.. if you trust that...
but I don't always trust them to be fully accurate on some parts interchanges..
Usually, and I say this from checking part numbers frequently, Kawasaki's MicroFiche and part numbers, when clicked on, will show the part has been "replaced by" XXXXX
but they didn't show this for any that I checked...
more to it... just saying...
Maybe ask SISF about it, as he has flashed every year C14 so far, and has plugged into the ECU's enough, to say whether you can swap ECU's, but I'm thinking no... unless they are of the same 'series group', i.e '08-'09, '10-'14, '15- up.
if you believe the parts interchange from supply houses,that is fine... BUT, there is still a difference and cutoff point, between '08-'09 units, and '10 and up.
I have no life... call me a Nerd.. :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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There's more to it than a fob/ECU 'kit number', as changes in the program, and logic circuits were made also....
<lots of good info>
Maybe ask SISF about it, as he has flashed every year C14 so far, and has plugged into the ECU's enough, to say whether you can swap ECU's, but I'm thinking no... unless they are of the same 'series group', i.e '08-'09, '10-'14, '15- up.
Not sure even he would know. The tables on at least all the 2nd gen (2010+) should be compatible and flashable from his situation (gen 1 doesn't have FEAM, so it is missing at least one whole table set). But that doesn't mean all the other functions remained the same and are compatible. But who knows, maybe he experimented some in that regard.
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Solution and completion can be found on this thread:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24235.msg309486#msg309486 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=24235.msg309486#msg309486)