Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: lather on November 21, 2012, 07:26:08 AM
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I bought a Motostance Type 2 automatic battery "maintenance" battery charger. It has a charge rate of 750 mA . The "maintenance" voltage is 14.4. My other three chargers have a maintenance voltage of around 3.2. MY question: is 14.4 too high for a maintenance charge?
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Do you mean amperage, because I don't think that you can charge a 12 volt battery with 3.2 volts?
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I am guessing you meant 13.2V in the OP. 14.4V is too high for a long term storage type deal. Most battery tenders(over winter type) are in the 13.2-13.7 range. My understanding is 14.4V is slowly boiling off the acid in the battery.
Matt
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I am guessing you meant 13.2V in the OP. 14.4V is too high for a long term storage type deal. Most battery tenders(over winter type) are in the 13.2-13.7 range. My understanding is 14.4V is slowly boiling off the acid in the battery.
Matt
Yes, typo, I meant to say 13.2. I also used to believe that 14 volts would boil away the water but according to the Concours voltage display, its charging voltage is 14.2 +/- 2 and that seems to be the spec for most all automotive charging systems. Then, there is maintenance free batteries that don't have water to boil away. BTW, I have this charger on my VFR and I think the batt is lead/acid type.
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The 14.2-14.7 is standard for lead acid batteries on vehicles. They only charge when running. It is a big difference when it is sitting for 3 months or so being held at that voltage. They are much happier around 13.5V in those conditions.
Matt
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I am guessing you meant 13.2V in the OP. 14.4V is too high for a long term storage type deal. Most battery tenders(over winter type) are in the 13.2-13.7 range. My understanding is 14.4V is slowly boiling off the acid in the battery.
It is likely it drops to a lower voltage (like 13.X) when it is in trickle charge mode (if the charger is automatic). The voltage HAS to be a bit higher than 12.6, or it will never charge the battery (a lead acid battery in good condition is at 12.6V at rest at a full charge).
Fortunately, it is EASY to tell. Wait for it to be in maintenance/trickle mode, then pull apart the connector a bit (without breaking the circuit!), and connect a multimeter to the two slightly exposed contacts and read the voltage.
If it really much higher than 13.5V in trickle mode, it is probably not safe to use that charger for extended periods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acid_battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_acid_battery)
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The green light comes on and the red light goes out indicating trickle or maintenance mode but the charging voltage is still 14.4. I left hooked up for 24 hours and still 14.4 I have an onboard voltmeter on the VFR connected directly to the battery. I think the charger is defective. I am going to contact customer service.
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The green light comes on and the red light goes out indicating trickle or maintenance mode but the charging voltage is still 14.4. I left hooked up for 24 hours and still 14.4 I have an onboard voltmeter on the VFR connected directly to the battery. I think the charger is defective. I am going to contact customer service.
Hmm, this makes me nervous about the one I just bought. Perhaps I should test mine too (Battery Tender Jr), just out of curiosity.
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The battery in the C14 should be the AGM type (Absorbent Glass Mat). It is essentially a maintenance free battery in that once you fill it and give it the initial charge then seal it, you should never open it again. If you over charge it, you will damage it (short answer).
The battery charge voltage is higher (14.x Volts) while the charge cycle is active. Once the current to the battery drops below a minimum amount, the charger should shut off, and start monitoring the battery. Then if / when it drops below a 'maintenance level' (12.8V for AGM, typ.), start another recharge cycle.
Most of the "trickle chargers" out there will overcharge the battery if left on for too long (the ones that charge at 13.x Volts). They try to maintain a fixed voltage, which varies depending on the type of charger. The $5 (on sale) Harbor Freight trickle chargers try to maintain 12.65 to 12.75 Volts. They will actually bring down a AGM battery, since it wants to be at a higher resting voltage (12.8V), and the newest packaging on them states "Not for use with AGM batteries".
The Battery Tender Jr. uses the charge, monitor, recharge method. I have 2 of them in use, and would recommend them for your C14.
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For information: the motorcycle battery to 11.4 volts the c14 starts without problems.
MGval 8)erio.
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I will use nothing but the Battery Tender brand, there is a good reason why they are the best.
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I will use nothing but the Battery Tender brand, there is a good reason why they are the best.
+1 same here.
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I will use nothing but the Battery Tender brand, there is a good reason why they are the best.
Undeniably, Battery Tender is a good product. But there are a number of other brands of battery maintainers out there which are also very good (and maybe in some cases a better choice). I bought a Battery MINDer some years back (made by VDC Electronics) and have had excellent luck with the brand. I was turned onto the VDC product by some friends of mine who use theirs to maintain batteries for aircraft. VDC was among the first companies to employ a "desulfator" mode in their chargers.
If you are shopping online and want competitive pricing, informed salespeople and a variety of choices-- Pacific Battery Systems sells a number of different brands of battery maintainers including Schauer, VDC and Battery Tender.
http://www.pacificbattery.com/charger.html (http://www.pacificbattery.com/charger.html)
Just stay away from prolonged use of a "trickle" charger. Most chargers meant for prolonged use are labeled as "maintainers".
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The Battery Tender Jr. uses the charge, monitor, recharge method. I have 2 of them in use, and would recommend them for your C14.
Just stay away from prolonged use of a "trickle" charger. Most chargers meant for prolonged use are labeled as "maintainers".
Interestingly, the Battery Tender Jr. is labeled in some places as a maintainer and others as a trickle charger. In their own documentation it says:
"Step 4) Float Charge: Red Light Off, Green Light On. Constant Voltage at Float / Maintenance level. Keeps battery fully charged and maintains high specific gravity. Full charge reset monitor protects battery against excessive appliance current draw while charging. Float charge continues indefinitely."
Which means it really *is* a trickle charger (after it has brought the battery up to full charge). They don't seem to be worried about applying constant float charge as opposed to turning it off and monitoring, then applying intermittent full charges to keep it charged.
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Interestingly, the Battery Tender Jr. is labeled in some places as a maintainer and others as a trickle charger. In their own documentation it says:
"Step 4) Float Charge: Red Light Off, Green Light On. Constant Voltage at Float / Maintenance level. Keeps battery fully charged and maintains high specific gravity. Full charge reset monitor protects battery against excessive appliance current draw while charging. Float charge continues indefinitely."
Which means it really *is* a trickle charger (after it has brought the battery up to full charge). They don't seem to be worried about applying constant float charge as opposed to turning it off and monitoring, then applying intermittent full charges to keep it charged.
There does seem to be some contradictions there. Why would they need to recharge if they're maintaining a float charge? Me thinks this will require more investigation, and maybe some actual measuring of what the chargers are doing.
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I have two bikes with onboard volt meters wired directly to the battery. When I connect my Shumacher Battery Companion (which looks a lot like and I think works like the Deltran Battery Tender) this is what happens: If the battery is already fully charged the indicator light immediately goes green and the voltage reading goes from 12.9 or 13.0 to 13.2. If the battery is partially discharged, the light goes on yellow and voltage jumps from whatever it was (12.3-12.8) to 14.2. After from 30 seconds to up to 4 or 5 minutes the light goes green and voltage drops to 13.2. Yes, I usually wait for the light to go green.
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Really, you hang around to see the little green light?
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Really, you hang around to see the little green light?
Often. You're supposed to wait for green to go, right?
Look, I typed an 8 and it turned into a cool smiley.
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:chugbeer:
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Flashing red is no good though. :(
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There does seem to be some contradictions there. Why would they need to recharge if they're maintaining a float charge? Me thinks this will require more investigation, and maybe some actual measuring of what the chargers are doing.
I checked my Tender Jr last night, it's currently maintaining the charge on my sled battery. The LED is green and the voltage was 13.00.
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Hmm. This battery is only 1 year old, but I noticed it being a bit weak already. Still always use the Tender Jr. full-time on it. I left it off the charger for a while, then asked the bike the voltage (ignition, not running), and it showed 12.2V. That seems a bit low, even with the computer/dash up and the running lights (which are LED withOUT load resistors). I am not sure how much draw there is in that state, but it is maybe around 20-30W?
Had a 30 min ride, then parked it elsewhere, it sat for a few hours, came back, turned on ignition, and it showed 12.2V again. It did start OK, just sounds a bit weak still. Rode home, plugged in the Tender Jr, which goes red for a while, then after a while it is green. Rinse and repeat. Every chart I find shows 12.2V at around a 50% charge. Example: https://footprinthero.com/lead-acid-battery-voltage-charts
It could be the battery is crap (previous one of same brand lasted 3 years). Just seems so strange, since it is always maintained and it rarely even gets below freezing here. Could be the Tender Jr. isn't doing its job. What voltage does YOUR Concours show on the dash when you think it is fully charged and has been off the charger?
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If you are worried about anything on the bike, replace it and stop the stress. I use a Noco genius 2 charger on the Indian. Very impressed with it. Has settings for normal flooded, AGM, and Lithium. I only charge in the winter. I don't need it in the summer. Your charger needs to match the type of battery or you could ruin it long term. 4 years is a good life for a battery thats not in regular usage (charging whilst running).
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Ooops. Corrected previous post. This current "Chrome" brand YTX14-BS battery is only ONE YEAR OLD. It was the previous one (same brand/model) that lasted 3 years.
Performed some additional tests, including using a more sophisticated charger. It agrees with the state of the battery and acts the same when charging it. So it isn't the Tender Jr. I guess it can be explained by the battery just not being deep anymore. So yeah, I might need a spare battery on hand now. Still curious what voltage other people show on dash before starting the engine.
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My C14 lives on a tender (Optimate Accumate) and when plugged in the bike shows 13.2V. When I unplug the tender that drops to 12.5V. When the engine is running it shows 14.4V. The battery is a MotoBatt AGM and is now 5 years old. She hadn't been started for 5 weeks and yet she fired right up yesterday.
When the engine is running that 14.4V is running all of the electrics (computers, ignition system, lights, etc.) as well as charging the battery so it needs to be higher because of the higher load.
When she is parked and the tender plugged in, once fully charged the only drain is the batteries internal resistance, so the required voltage to maintain the battery is much lower.
Most tenders will output up to 14V when charging a nearly flat battery but that will drop to 13V once it is fully charged.
If you have one of the more modern "battery maintainers" then those are computerised and will analyse your battery before deciding what to do with it. Those can use a variety of "modes" including discharging, pulse-charging, de-sulphating, and several others. I have a cheap Chinese one of those connected to my C10 and it works just fine.
If your battery feels weak or struggles to start the bike, replace it.
I strongly recommend the MotoBatt AGM. As well as the 5 year old in the C14 I've had one in my C10 for 8 years now and it's still going strong.
You get exactly what you pay for with cheap batteries.
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That Motobatt is what I had. Very good battery.
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Motobatt MBTX12U ?
https://www.amazon.com/MotoBatt-MBTX12U-Lead_Acid_Battery/dp/B003YMRH70
It has 4 terminals??
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Motobatt MBTX12U ?
https://www.amazon.com/MotoBatt-MBTX12U-Lead_Acid_Battery/dp/B003YMRH70
It has 4 terminals??
4 terminals so that the positive can be on the left or the right when looking at it. Both terminals at either end are just commoned together.
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4 terminals so that the positive can be on the left or the right when looking at it. Both terminals at either end are just commoned together.
I like that idea. I have so many farkles on my battery’s positive terminal that it’s tough to fit it all together.
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Motobatt MBTX12U ?
https://www.amazon.com/MotoBatt-MBTX12U-Lead_Acid_Battery/dp/B003YMRH70
It has 4 terminals??
That's the beastie. Makes it way simpler to attach accessories and chargers.
I have the MB18U in my C10 but I believe that the MBTX20UHD also fits the C10.