Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: gPink on July 10, 2017, 08:55:20 AM
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credit to robcig from the cog forum.... http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/concours_10_yrs.html (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/concours_10_yrs.html)
the links at the bottom are interesting
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Thanks for posting.
Interesting comment about the battery size, being the reason Kawasaki doesn't install cruise control.
Ride safe, Ted
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"The Kawasaki Concours 10 years later"
10 years later than when?
8 plus 10 is 18 ;)
(Oh ok, it was on the drawing board before that)
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Not sure about that math, Mike. The C14 was introduced here in the summer of 2007. I bought mine in the beginning of August of that year.
Coincidentally, I was staying in South Hill, VA for a job over the weekend and went to Buggs Island lake to take some pictures. I happened upon an 08 being ridden by someone out of NC. Had a pleasant conversation for about 20 minutes. He had bought it used a few years back from another rider. Only had about 25k miles on it. Told me he was looking for something a bit sportier. I told him I was going in the opposite direction.... ;)
I've certainly enjoyed my C14.
How many on here still have their 08's operational and still in their possession?
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Cool read. No, you can't go making the hole in the frame bigger, but you can make a better battery that fits. Batteries always get smaller and more powerful as time marches on.
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why are batteries such a problem?
Quick search on Yousa (http://www.yuasa.co.uk/) (have used their batteries many a time) gives me 2 alternatives for the 1400GTR (in the UK at least)
the YTX14H-BS or the YTX14-BS
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I'm not sure I agree with all that was said in that battery paragraph. Not sure what he means by the battery is 'unique' as everyone knows???? The battery is greatly overloaded? WTF is he talking about?? Maybe applied to police bikes...not to the general public. Never had any issues with the battery on this bike as far as loading it. Terminals loose, yes. Other than that, no. Not enough battery for cruise? Again, WTF is he talking about? This bike has one of the best charging systems I know. I think this guy is full of sh*!.
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Yep, interesting. And it makes no sense whatsoever. Any more than saying that battery size determined the use of 190 / 50 rear tire size vs. 185/55.
Cruise control uses far, far less power than the brake light, and on a C-14, those are LED. And that would be for an entirely electro- magnetic system such as a Rostra, yet factory CC are all vacuum powered, which makes the concept that there is insufficient battery power to power a cruise control even more ludicrous.
Frankly, I think that information is simply incorrect and is the result of either a feeble excuse on the part of some marketing team, or a lack of technical abilities on the part of the author.
Otherwise, yep, in a couple of weeks it will be 'our' 10- year anniversary (me and my C-14); I purchased it on 25 July, 2007. It has been a fantastic experience owning, riding, working on and tinkering / altering this bike for me over that decade. And right this minute, I have not yet found another bike that would be a viable candidate when I replace my '08.... which should be NOW but unfortunately, I have other fish fryi.... er, burning in the pan and so now is not the right moment. But with a little luck, next year for either a new C-14 or a used later model in pristine shape. And them I will farkle it w/in an inch of its life. ;) ;D And probably keep the '08 to strip the useful parts off of it such as the brand new ZX 14 front forks (with compression damping). And that HID projector headlight ass'y that never got installed.
Brian
Thanks for posting.
Interesting comment about the battery size, being the reason Kawasaki doesn't install cruise control.
Ride safe, Ted
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Now there is the power of alcohol! Jim said exactly what I was thinking! :rotflmao:
Keep up the great work Jim, we NEED people like you as a counter to the CMP who are probably all nodding..... (funny but serious at the same time) Keep on this path, and you could be the newer version of Rich (M.O.B.).
Or, in the legendary words of Oscar Gamble (professional baseball player, responding to a question about racial problems in major league baseball in the US) said so very eloquently: "They don't think it be like it is, but it do." Following along with Mr. Gamble's original thoughts but applied to other subjects, it may seem to some that the battery on a C-14 is either inadequate for some tasks, or is some type of limiting factor to which I say: They may say the battery be like it is but it do not.
Still, it is pretty clear that the C-14 has not been either a good selling product for Kawasaki nor profitable (one follows the other). And I suspect profit margins are small on the C-14 compared to whatever it is they make with two cylinders and floorboards (a Vulcan? whatever). So instead of lamenting the lack of revisions, updates and improvements to the bike in the last ten years, frankly I am a little surprised it has not been dropped entirely and honestly am fearful that that could happen at any moment. And that will leave us with exactly one direct competitor, Yamaha's Fudger, and adequate bike but not what spins my wheels, and all the lesser and almost always more expensive bikes out there such as BMW boxer twins (now there is a mighty stab in cutting edge technology, from 1923) and some 'also rans' such as the Triumph. So while others complain about what the C-14 is not, or does not have, I am holding on to the hope that I can still buy one at something like a reasonable price before they disappear entirely.
Brian
I'm not sure I agree with all that was said in that battery paragraph. Not sure what he means by the battery is 'unique' as everyone knows???? The battery is greatly overloaded? WTF is he talking about?? Maybe applied to police bikes...not to the general public. Never had any issues with the battery on this bike as far as loading it. Terminals loose, yes. Other than that, no. Not enough battery for cruise? Again, WTF is he talking about? This bike has one of the best charging systems I know. I think this guy is full of sh*!.
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;D And I was sober when I wrote it... And no one can replace Rich. :rotflmao: As the forum curmudgeon.
And that statement about leaving the fob on the bike will drain the fob's battery....I don't think that's true. It only starts talking when the Keyknobby is pressed in and the bike pings it. It is a great listener, though. This guy is going to make me open my factory manual.
According to my 08 manual...verbatim.
The life of the battery in the FOB key is approximately 1 year. The number of times of the communication between the system and the FOB key varies according to the operating environment, such as driving on expressways or city streets. Because the system attempts to detect the FOB each time the motorcycle is started off, the battery wears out more quickly as stop-and-go becomes more frequent.
After the initial communications is settled out and the bike is moving, I believe that there is some communications still as the bike will warn the rider if the FOB is out of range while operating (usually too late to do anything about it. Great feature.....not.). So the battery life is impacted on say longer mileage trips and turning off and on the bike frequently.
Just leaving the FOB on the bike (while not a good idea anyway) is not going to impact battery life unless you keep the bike running while parked or just turning it on and off constantly.
Where the heck is this guy getting his information?
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Do not do it Jim! For the love of the KiPass gods, do not do it!
Seriously, there is no need. You are correct and the author is, well.... not. Please do not let him sway your good thinking and carefully collected judgement just because someone left the keyboard unlocked..... :-)
Rich IS pure gold, Some find him offensive but I for some odd reason do not and never have. He just kind of spews stuff, some true, some nonsense and all with out a filter of any kind- which is fantastic in this PC world.
There is member of the other forum (and group), an older gentleman named Jerry, who I know from that group. And he is worth his weight in gold: things come out of his mouth that make everyone 'duck and cover' but often 1) they are true 2) they are never delivered with any kind of hesitation or couched in a long, wordy explanation. He is apparently now on FaceTwit, spewing his (truths? witticisms? views?) and while not in the same realm of politically correct, they are fantastic (in a great way) to read. Sort of like a high- level Archie Bunker and a lot more fair and just: he will 'whack' anyone who needs it, regardless of color, creed, religion, place of origin, etc., etc.
"I speak the truth not so much as I would, but as much as I dare, and I dare a little more as I grow older."
-de Montaigne
Brian (who tells people, both males and females, to get back to me when the PMS is again under control)
One day, I hope to reach this level. Maybe after that diagnosis- you know, where they explain exactly what that spot on the X-ray means?
;D And I was sober when I wrote it... And no one can replace Rich. :rotflmao: As the forum curmudgeon.
And that statement about leaving the fob on the bike will drain the fob's battery....I don't think that's true. It only starts talking when the Keyknobby is pressed in and the bike pings it. It is a great listener, though. This guy is going to make me open my factory manual.
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"The Concours battery as everyone knows is unique and no equivalent replacement is available on the aftermarket,"
Like Jim said, WTF is he talking about? I've only owned 5 bikes now but 3 of them including the C14 used a 14-BS battery. I would guess this might be the most common battery for a motorcycle and can be found almost anywhere with multiple brands available on the aftermarket. BTW, my son's FJR uses the same battery.
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As a relatively new owner of a C14 (bought a 2012 NOS in 2015 and have gleefully farkled it since), I am always delighted to read such electrically-flavored discourse as this.
Prolly time for me to go out and check my batt-ree. :o
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Yes. Keep a good eye on that think because they are apparently rare, and will be 'pushed over the edge' if some accessories are used.
CMP everywhere I look. :rotflmao:
Brian
As a relatively new owner of a C14 (bought a 2012 NOS in 2015 and have gleefully farkled it since), I am always delighted to read such electrically-flavored discourse as this.
Prolly time for me to go out and check my batt-ree. :o
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The author has some interesting comments on the abs failures.
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Yeah, it is 10 year models: 2008 through 2017 (that is 10 years of models)! This is why we were wondering if next year would be a remake, since 10 is a pretty damn-long run! We should be hearing something soon, no?
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Interesting comment about the battery size, being the reason Kawasaki doesn't install cruise control.
That might be some unofficial official "reason" (one I have never heard of, by the way), but it doesn't make sense to me at all. The C14 has plenty of both battery and more importantly alternator, to support cruise controls. That is why people add them all the time with zero problems from supposedly not having enough electrical power. Most OLD cruise systems use vacuum "power" anyway, the electric draw is probably under 100mA. People regularly add lots of accessories that have draws far, far higher than any cruise control.
Personally, I wouldn't mind having cruise, and I think it should, but it isn't something critical to me (which is why I also never bothered trying to add one).
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Still, it is pretty clear that the C-14 has not been either a good selling product for Kawasaki nor profitable (one follows the other). And I suspect profit margins are small [...] frankly I am a little surprised it has not been dropped entirely and honestly am fearful that that could happen at any moment.
Good observation and point. The C14 is a big, complex and EXPENSIVE bike. Before the H2, I think it was their most expensive "real" (non-cruiser) bike they sold; yes, it retails for even more than the ZX14. The market for sports-touring is far, far smaller than the markets for sports bikes, naked street bikes, and cruisers. Since a LOT of the engineering was shared with the ZX14, the actual design and production cost was probably very reasonable.
I have actually wondered if rather than coming out with something new, they just drop it completely and try to pretend that hanging bags on an existing upright semi-sport model makes it a touring bike (hint: nope, it doesn't). So I guess we should shut up and be grateful!
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Here you go Max, ;) ..... Of course, the Concours' ZX14-derived engine is detuned 45hp through smaller ports and fuel injectors and much milder cams,
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Here you go Max, ;) ..... Of course, the Concours' ZX14-derived engine is detuned 45hp through smaller ports and fuel injectors and much milder cams,
Yep, it is amazing how poor terminology can spread. Just keep repeating it until other people repeat it. I will rank it about as valid as the nonsense about cruise control and battery, the fact that it is actually more like 37hp not 45, the fact that it weighs 77 pounds more, not 120, that the startup rattle is not technically the hydraulic system but the timing chain not being tensioned yet, his complete omission of the ability to adjust the brake linking by switching in different modes while describing the rest of it in detail. Don't even get me started on the grammar. I am sure others could continue, but my point is probably made.
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That might be some unofficial official "reason" (one I have never heard of, by the way), but it doesn't make sense to me at all. The C14 has plenty of both battery and more importantly alternator, to support cruise controls. That is why people add them all the time with zero problems from supposedly not having enough electrical power. Most OLD cruise systems use vacuum "power" anyway, the electric draw is probably under 100mA. People regularly add lots of accessories that have draws far, far higher than any cruise control.
Personally, I wouldn't mind having cruise, and I think it should, but it isn't something critical to me (which is why I also never bothered trying to add one).
My Indian has cruise. Best dam cruise out of any vehicle I've ever owned. Two Indian dealers in your area.... ;) But when it comes to battery connections coming loose, the C14 doesn't compare to the Indian. They'll come loose before your eyes.. And heat, don't get me started on heat. :rotflmao:
You see what you've started, Gary?
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My Indian has cruise. Best dam cruise out of any vehicle I've ever owned. Two Indian dealers in your area.... ;)
Um, I'll pass....
In my case, I just don't ride lots of long distances, so a cruise control wouldn't be used all that much. At least I don't think it would. Mostly would come in handy so I could shake the feeling back into my right hand (damn carpal tunnel syndrome). That said, I use cruise on my car all the time.
But when it comes to battery connections coming loose, the C14 doesn't compare to the Indian. They'll come loose before your eyes..
Been there, done that. Seems like we have all been there.
And heat, don't get me started on heat.
Seems OK on mine, as long as I am moving. Stopped in freaking traffic- well, that is a different story. Wow
You see what you've started, Gary?
He is an instigator!!
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Looking forward to celebrating 10 years on my '08 next month. It's been rock solid with absolutely minimal maintenance and no issues except for a problem with KI-Pass early on.
Oh, and my original battery lasted 8 years, 8 months and 8 days (136,818km). Pretty crappy, must have been overworked or summink...
http://banditrider.blogspot.co.nz/2016/04/8-years-8-months-8-days.html (http://banditrider.blogspot.co.nz/2016/04/8-years-8-months-8-days.html)
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My Indian has cruise. Best dam cruise out of any vehicle I've ever owned. Two Indian dealers in your area.... ;) But when it comes to battery connections coming loose, the C14 doesn't compare to the Indian. They'll come loose before your eyes.. And heat, don't get me started on heat. :rotflmao:
You see what you've started, Gary?
:banana :banana :banana
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:battle: :rotflmao:
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Oh, and my original battery lasted 8 years, 8 months and 8 days (136,818km).
That, right there, is amazing :)
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That, right there, is amazing :)
That battery has probably never been cold.
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My original battery went 5 years and I only replaced it because I was going on a cross country trip and didn't want to take any chances. Never used a battery tender either.
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Heat will kill a battery just as much as cold will. I like puppies! :offtopic:
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Yes it will.
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That battery has probably never been cold.
Not cold like some of you blokes in the North of the Northern Hemisphere. Generally only ridden through snowy areas. Does get below 0 (celsius) overnight where I am in winter but bike snug in it's uninsulated shed.
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WAY OFFTOPIC:
Hmmmm. Do you folks have a full winter (weeks of sub freezing weather) there? I would think you are far enough south for that to be the case but do not know and actually, never thought of it.
I do not think Australia has a very cold winter (again, weeks of steady temps. below freezing) but actually do not know. You have me thinking about it though.
Funny thing but the UK is farther north than I am but their weather is much, much milder due to the Gulf Stream (no goodnik Brits! Still taking advantage of us colonists!).
Brian
Not cold like some of you blokes in the North of the Northern Hemisphere. Generally only ridden through snowy areas. Does get below 0 (celsius) overnight where I am in winter but bike snug in it's uninsulated shed.
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WAY OFFTOPIC:
Funny thing but the UK is farther north than I am but their weather is much, much milder due to the Gulf Stream (no goodnik Brits! Still taking advantage of us colonists!).
Brian
Although neither do we get the extreme highs associated with inner continental weather patterns.
I'm in Bolton (Just outside Manchester) which at 53.5769° N is pretty much identical to Edmonton (53.5444° N) both of which are only only slightly south of Moscow(55.7558° N) and yet apart from the odd couple of days I can ride all year round
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We have temps a lot cooler (and we're a lot wetter) than most of Oz - they wear jerseys when they come over here for a summer holiday ;) . Having a cold snap here at the moment - the South Island is getting hammered and a lot of bikes will be parked up for a few months. Not so bad where I am although I am less than an hour away from some closed roads at the moment. I ride year round and will possibly take my Tenere up into the snow this weekend.
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I am the second owner...originally sold 7/7/2007. Ten years old for sure. Some of youall still don't understand the "Model Year" thing.
157,320 miles currently. over 100,000 of them mine, in 3 1/2 years or so.
Bought a nice 2010 with 14000 miles on June 21. Now showing over 18000. Yes, I like the things.
Ahem. Max. Those of us who actually put miles on the things really wish it had cruise control. I have a twist-lock throttle lock, which is about 2% as good.
Agree with the mob about the battery. Very ordinary, and tons of capacity in the alternator, and BS BS BS. Blahblahblah.
dat
sax
man
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P.S. You can get much of the "missing" ZX14 power back. Check my sig line ... Chet (SonofPappy) did the install, but it huffs along noticeably harder than the stock ZG14 setup.
dat
sax
man
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Ahem. Max. Those of us who actually put miles on the things really wish it had cruise control.
Well, that is why I qualified my shorter rides as probably not needing it. Interesting info- my car is two years NEWER than my Concours, and yet I have more miles on the Concours :)
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Well, I can say with 100% certainty that the VVT info is fullty incorrect. I''ve timed the cams, and disassembled and measured the vvt movement in degrees. This whole article is written by someone who knows nothing about the bike, but needed to get his name out there.
Misinformation is worse than no information.
Steve
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Well, I can say with 100% certainty that the VVT info is fullty incorrect. I''ve timed the cams, and disassembled and measured the vvt movement in degrees. This whole article is written by someone who knows nothing about the bike, but needed to get his name out there.
Misinformation is worse than no information.
Steve
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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How many on here still have their 08's operational and still in their possession?
Me. And a lot less miles on it than I'd like. But it'still running fine.
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Me. And a lot less miles on it than I'd like. But it'still running fine.
Mine is an '08 also (not original owner). Despite my best efforts it still runs like a scalded cat.
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My first 08 bought new in 10/07 was running great when it was rear ended and totalled last month with 170,000 miles. I bought an 08 with 50,000 miles and it also runs great.
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I still have my 08 purchased in july of 07. I have not yet found anything that could come close to replacing it.
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Of course the rider can also select between three levels of linking, with the choices basically maximum, middle (and variable), and minimal.
Dang!..cheated again..mine only has two. >:(
Judging by his website (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/), Mike seems to be mostly a Honda guy writing about Kawasaki and having the expected accuracy in the facts.
This whole article is written by someone who knows nothing about the bike, but needed to get his name out there.
Misinformation is worse than no information.
Steve
True dat.
Now, here is what Mike thinks about Motorcycle forums (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/motorcycle_user_forums.html) :D
.......I find user forums guilty of misinformation on a grand scale, to put it mildly, .....
carbrebuilder@gmail.com is Mike's email, if anyone wants to invite him here to defend his article. I almost did, but didn't. :-\
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I seem to recall that in the early days of HSTA (Honda Sort Touring Association) we had a member named Mike Nixon who was the technical editor for the newsletter.
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Thanks for posting that link Marty. Actually, I basically agree with his assessment of forums, motorcycle and otherwise but have not quite reached the same conclusions.
First, yep, a handful of people who post a lot and show some <seemingly> level of ability or knowledge get bumped to GOO ROO status and that is unfortunate. The next step is that the pack mentality of humans kicks in and a ring of worshipers surrounds said GOO ROO and will rip the throat out of any that even appear to question the GOO ROO's 'pronouncements' never mind actually challenge them.
Of course that should not happen because 1) even smart people, and they are pretty rare IME, have a virtually infinite amount of things they DO NOT know. 2) Everyone makes mistakes, is wrong, and has wrong or just bad opinions and it is best if that was not blindly followed (see the 'Crazy Channel' for this idea run amok). and 3) ALL people should ALWAYS use the B.S. filters we call frontal lobes and weigh everything before it is swallowed, acted upon or just believed. This is the best and most stalwart defense against the mok- running GOO ROO but unfortunately, due entirely to what seems to be lazy thinking, it often is not used.
Now that said, I find forums invaluable in moving and gaining information, both directly from individuals, and indirectly through links, foggy memories, and all kinds of references. The key is to pick up the gems and leave the cat- box fillers behind. Or, separate the wheat from the chaff as the saying goes.
So yeah, forums can be 'bad' but only if the reader allows it. No one is held down and force- fed anything through a forum. And there IS good info. to be had, along with a few chuckles, an upset stomach and all the rest of what comes with rubbing up against humanity.
And just to add: this forum is excellent IMO and IME, and way back in the olden' days when the C-14 first came out, it was invaluable, to me at least, in learning about all kinds of things about this 'new' bike. A huge number of really beneficial contributors, all finding out things about the bike and posting them for everyone to see and know. Ya' just gots' ta' use it with care, like nuclear power, rattle snake venom and all kinds o' other stuff that is good but can have bad facets.
Brian (I ran amok when I was first starting out: it was a small machine and it went muck, muck, muck, muck, muck, muck, muck, muck, muck, muck, muck, muck)
Dang!..cheated again..mine only has two. >:(
Judging by his website (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/), Mike seems to be mostly a Honda guy writing about Kawasaki and having the expected accuracy in the facts.
True dat.
Now, here is what Mike thinks about Motorcycle forums (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/motorcycle_user_forums.html) :D
carbrebuilder@gmail.com is Mike's email, if anyone wants to invite him here to defend his article. I almost did, but didn't. :-\
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Of course that should not happen because 1) even smart people, and they are pretty rare IME, have a virtually infinite amount of things they DO NOT know. 2) Everyone makes mistakes, is wrong, and has wrong or just bad opinions and it is best if that was not blindly followed (see the 'Crazy Channel' for this idea run amok). and 3) ALL people should ALWAYS use the B.S. filters we call frontal lobes and weigh everything before it is swallowed, acted upon or just believed. This is the best and most stalwart defense against the mok- running GOO ROO but unfortunately, due entirely to what seems to be lazy thinking, it often is not used.
Agree 100% . Question everything. Everything is a learning opportunity. If someone tells you something in a subject you're knowledgeable about, they should be able to be scrutized to see if they're onto something or not. We can all learn from each other, too, but we should stay in our own lanes when it comes to giving advise. And as far as someone who thinks out of the box, well it shouldn't be arbitrarly or summarily dismissed as illogical ramblings, because discovery starts with questioning everything and thinking outside the box.
As far as Mike Nixon is concerned, I guess maybe as long as misinformation is put elsewhere on the interwebz outside of a forum, ie his article, then it's OK to contribute to the misinformation cluster.
Steve