Help with brake bleeding

[ATC Buckeye]

I purchased new pads and rebuild kits for my 82k mile Concours.  I've never had a whole heck of a lot of confidence with the braking system, so I figured I'll try replacing everything that can be replaced easily.   I rebuilt the master earlier this year.

The bike came with a 3 line Spiegler stainless line setup when I got it at 74k miles.  I pumped out all the fluid, removed the calipers, blew out the pistons with compressed air, and replaced all the seals.  I cleaned up the pistons real nice and got them seated in the calipers.   I put everything back together, filled the master cylinder and started the painstaking process of sending fluid through the system.  I have a Mity-Vac which helps this procedure, but I still find it to be a real PITA. 

Anyway, it's all done now and I'm getting clear, bubble-free fluid from both calipers.   But I've got almost no pressure at the brake handle.  I have those knock-off adjustable levers from Ebay, and I have to put them in the furthest setting to keep the lever from hitting the grip.   I do get stopping power in this position but it's definitely not right.   I used almost an entire large bottle of brake fluid bleeding both sides over and over, and now I'm kinda at the end of my patience.   

I've now read about zip-tying the lever to the grip overnight and it is currently sitting in my garage with the lever in said position.

What am I missing?   Should I have filled the calipers with fluid before hooking them back up?   Do I need to re-do this bleed job somehow?   Never had this much trouble with bikes in the past.   I have a SS1000 coming up on the 15th, so I need to get this sorted out.

Thanks for any assistance.   

[Boomer343]

Try this....master filled with brake fluid, top of master screwed on with gasket in place. Unbolt master from handle bars. Tip master with brake lines down while slowly pumping brake lever, doesn't need to travel far. Tilt master at various angles keeping brake lines downward and pump as best you can on brake lever. Remount master on handle bar and check lever travel.

If your calipers are clear of air then this should give you a good brake lever. Has always worked for me.

[ATC Buckeye]

I will try this.  How would I know if my calipers are clear of air?   Like I said, the fluid comes out nicely from the bleed screws.

[RedWyvern]

odds are they are clear.  As Boomer mentioned, the air bubble might be up in the master.  That banjo bolt is higher than the master cylinder port, so it can hold air.

Another method is to press the caliper all the way in, so the piston retracts as far as possible.  Then pump it back out.  Do this 2 or 3 times on each side.  This helps force any air down low back up high.  Then do the master cylinder trick.

When it's all back together, yes, I do tie my brake lever back, and yes, I do feel a difference.

Mark

[WiConnie]

While I'm new to these Concours I've done a lot of brakes on the early 80s Honda Super Sports. I notice the Concours has the same triple junction set up where the three lines join at that pipe just above the fender. I've found that this is a place where bubbles really like to get trapped and have gotten in the habit of bleeding these banjo bolts. (make sure all your paint is protected) As with other posts I've also removed the entire system without taking it apart and "hung" it in the shop with no horizontal areas forcing all air to raise to the master. Slightly tapping the system will also help brake the tiny little bubble that cling to the inside of the line loose and into the fluid so they can find a way out.

Good luck, I know that bleeding brakes and getting to that rock solid brake lever can be very frustrating. I've also fallen in love with Speed Bleeders. 

[Leo]

Like RedWyvern suggested, I bleed the system as best as I can.  Then I push the caliper pistons back in to back flush the fluid.  This has resulted in an improvement several different times for me.  When I went to a two line system, I had put new pads on also.  Even though the feel was a little better than stock, I felt I could get it better.  I re installed the old (worn Thin) pads and pumped them out, watching the Master fluid level.  Then when I pushed the caliper pistons back in, there was a lot more fluid volume and movement.  That did the trick, The lever has felt fine ever since.  When I change the brake fluid, I am very carefull not to let the Master cylinder go dry, so I  have not had to revist that trick. 

[ATC Buckeye]

After removing the master, holding it upright and tapping everything, and finally binding the lever overnight, its feeling really good this morning. 

[gtr1000]

After removing the master, holding it upright and tapping everything, and finally binding the lever overnight, its feeling really good this morning.

Didn't quite have your problems but thought my "good" lever could be better.

In a fit of temper one night, I pulled the lever back hard, and I mean very hard until my knuckles were blue, 5 or 6 times  .

Result - one very firm front lever. Shame I can't say that for the rear brake 

[Strawboss]

Glad all is well, when I replaced the brake lines, I knew that triple junction was trouble and just went to the 2 line system. Something to think about later, saves A LOT of time bleeding.