Author Topic: Sold my Concours to get something different  (Read 17684 times)

Offline maxtog

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2016, 08:24:57 PM »
Every time you make this "correction" I have to wonder if you actually rode a ZX-14. The C14 is a detuned version, whichever way you slice it. Nobody needs the ZX power, but then again, nobody needs the C14 power.

As I have said many times, it is not de-tuned.  In no way, shape or fashion.  That implies it was simply neutered, incorrectly designed, and/or incorrectly programmed, and there is zero sense in saying such a thing.  The C14's engine design, like all designs, is a compromise or balance between various competing factors.  Maximum top raw power at all costs = worst fuel economy, unfriendly handling in certain conditions, less reliability, more noise, less comfort when cruising, less lower end power, a less predictable power curve, and more.

Anyone who says the C14 is a "de-tuned" ZX is completely discounting all other factors and is essentially just insulting the designers and engineers and it makes the one saying it the bike sound snobby or just plain uninformed.  The word "tune" doesn't simply apply in that context.  The ZX doesn't even have variable valve timing.  It is a different head, different exhaust, different intake, different throttle bodies, different pistons; none of that is a "tune", it is a totally different implementation of roughly the same engine block.  It was designed that way specifically to meet the demands and role of a sport tourer.... just like replacing the chain drive with a shaft drive, moving the pegs, raising the bars, having bigger mirrors, adding luggage, heated grips, adjustable windshield, and many other changes.  Kawasaki isn't stupid.  If the objective was to just take a ZX and "de-tune" it, they could have left the exact same engine in it as the ZX and destroyed the mapping of the injection system (and THAT would be a "tune").   And in the process they would have saved TONS of time, money, research, parts inventory, documentation changes, and tooling.  Oh, and the resulting bike would have been less expensive, too.

The only intentional "munged" tuning done on the C14 is the same thing done on EVERY factory street bike (ZX included) for decades past by every manufacturer.  And that is what is done mostly to meet emissions laws and as a safety margin.  To reverse that, you can reflash the ECU on FI engines or rejet the carbs on non FI engines.  The  rejetting kit I put in my ZRX did the same thing for that bike that the Guhl or Steve's reflashing does on the C14 and the same thing the reflashing options do for the ZX.

The Concours is not a ZX, it isn't supposed to be.   It is not "inferior" to a ZX nor a detuned ZX, it is a different bike with different objectives, designed to operate and perform differently.  And the word "performance" doesn't just mean highest peak horsepower or fastest off a line just like the best performance of musical piece isn't just the loudest or the fastest rendition.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2016, 08:45:56 PM »
Different drive train as well..

One can de-tune an engine by doing all sorts of things such as changing cams, heads, fuel injection system, computer set up, exhaust and a myriad of other things as well.  One could do all of these things to a ZX-14 and it would still be a ZX-14, not as fast, but still a ZX-14.  We ride a C14 Sport Tourer.  It is not a ZX-14.  It will never be a ZX-14.  It will always be a C14/GTR.  One can spend gobs of money for performance improvements but it will still be a C14/GTR, faster, but still a C14/GTR.  A ZX-14 is not just the engine, it's a complete well engineered package.  A C14/GTR is not just an engine, it's a complete well engineered package.

So if I were to have an opinion on this, I'd say I'm in Max's camp in that it is not a de-tuned ZX-14.

However, if one feels that it's a de-tuned ZX-14 and that makes one feel good about their bike then that's ok.  I like the C-14 the way it is, with some modifications of course, but it's still a C14.
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Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2016, 09:47:51 PM »
As I have said many times, it is not de-tuned.  In no way, shape or fashion.  That implies it was simply neutered, incorrectly designed, and/or incorrectly programmed, and there is zero sense in saying such a thing.  {snip}

The word "tune" is in the term "de-tuned", and one of the definitions of the word "tune" (according to https://www.google.com/#q=tune) is:

tune /t(y)o͞on/ verb - 4. "adjust or adapt (something) to a particular purpose or situation."

Maybe it's actually the "de-" part of de-tuned you don't like.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2016, 11:08:55 PM »
The word "tune" is in the term "de-tuned", and one of the definitions of the word "tune" (according to https://www.google.com/#q=tune) is:

tune /t(y)o͞on/ verb - 4. "adjust or adapt (something) to a particular purpose or situation."

Adjust, not change.  When you tune a violin, you adjust the length of the strings, you are are not replacing all the strings with something different or changing the shape of the style.  When you tune a radio, you are adjusting the dial until you receive a radio station, you are not adding new circuitry or replacing a blown fuse.  When you tune up a car, you might adjust  the spark plug gaps, adjust the throttle linkage, or adjust the sync between the throttle bodies, you are not replacing the head or putting in different pistons.

According to Webster's, "tune" in relation to a vehicle, is:

"to adjust (a motor, mechanism, or the like) for proper functioning. "

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/tune?s=t

Detuned then means it is not properly functioning or was adjusted such that it is not functioning properly.

Quote
Maybe it's actually the "de-" part of de-tuned you don't like.

I don't like either part, because both are wrong.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline O.C.

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2016, 01:58:03 AM »
I really must go and De-Tune my sock drawer  :thumbs:     :1DeadBanana   
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Offline gPink

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2016, 03:35:05 AM »
I just learned that 2 + 2 = 5 if it makes me feel good. The day was not wasted.

Offline O.C.

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2016, 04:04:50 AM »
I just learned that 2 + 2 = 5 if it makes me feel good. The day was not wasted.

Agreed +1    :) 

For the benefit of others

detune
diːˈtjuːn/
verb
past tense: de-tuned; past participle: de-tuned
1.
cause (a musical instrument) to become out of tune.
2.
reduce the performance or efficiency of (a motor vehicle or engine) by adjustment.
"a slightly detuned version of a professional rally racer" 


Also in my initial use of the De-tuned expression I captioned the word/s De-tuned in apostrophes, thus(' de tuned') not Quotation marks, thus (" de tuned")

Interestingly, Detuned can be spelt in different ways.

I never knew there could be so much fun resulting from the interpretation of expressions within a post, thanks guys (no sexism intended)  :rotflmao: :chugbeer: 
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2016, 04:33:24 AM »
Oh, this is nothing.... :rotflmao:
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2016, 05:46:22 AM »
For the benefit of others

I think you mean amusement.

Please cite your source.  According to major dictionaries, there is really no such word as "detune".  And the lay reference in wikionary has no such definition.

Better amusement:

You Can Tune a Piano, but You Can't Tuna Fish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can_Tune_a_Piano,_but_You_Can%27t_Tuna_Fish
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 01:15:51 AM by maxtog »
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline O.C.

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2016, 06:17:55 AM »
I think you mean amusement.

Please site your source.  According to major dictionaries, there is really no such word as "detune".  And the lay reference in wikionary has no such definition.

Better amusement:

You Can Tune a Piano, but You Can't Tuna Fish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can_Tune_a_Piano,_but_You_Can%27t_Tuna_Fish


Nah I meant what I said, thanks Maxtog ;) 

Oh and source of information is the Oxford English Dictionary ..QED  :) 


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/detune 



I like the Piano and Tuna fish joke BTW  :)
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2016, 06:30:31 AM »
Oh and source of information is the Oxford English Dictionary ..QED  :)

Interesting... must be one of those American vs. British things.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline PlaynInPeoria

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2016, 07:05:31 AM »
I just learned that 2 + 2 = 5 if it makes me feel good. The day was not wasted.

LOL !!
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
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Offline SVonhof

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2016, 11:25:02 AM »
If the next gen Concours adds cruise, maybe locking bags using the remote (like the BMW K1600GT) and maybe better stock wind protection and more adjustment on the bars and pegs, it could be quite the contender to the big BMW at a fraction of the cost.
Scott
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2016, 12:56:08 PM »
De-tune of the day...

http://youtu.be/qEuV82GqQnE
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2016, 03:07:46 PM »
If the next gen Concours adds cruise, maybe locking bags using the remote (like the BMW K1600GT) and maybe better stock wind protection and more adjustment on the bars and pegs, it could be quite the contender to the big BMW at a fraction of the cost.

I would be SHOCKED if the next version didn't include cruise because with throttle-by-wire, it is essentially a zero cost addition.  Remotely locking bags would be kinda neat, but wouldn't sway me one way or another.   If they did that, add in remote locking for the gas cap!  More adjustability is always nice.  I expect it will have projector LED headlights, and LED turn/marker/tail lights too, it is just the new norm.

My wish list includes the ability to see more on the computer display at once (and with more customizing options), to have TPS that acts faster and has no internal battery to replace, integrated alarm system would be very nice, especially if it had a remote tamper alert.  Not sure how much I care about electronically adjustable suspension, but it would be nice to have.  Would love some type of auto-leveling headlight for cornering.  If MPG doesn't increase, it really needs at least another 1/2 gal fuel  capacity.  Factory, integrated tip-over protection bars/pads would be very nice.

One of those things that would make me very unhappy would be if they removed the large, dual analog dials.  If they wanted to minic analog on a huge fast digital screen, that would be OK.... but I don't think that will arrive (I would guess a somewhat larger and color display).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2016, 04:48:31 PM »
Cup holders....it must have cup holders.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2016, 04:59:00 PM »
Cup holders....it must have cup holders.

Don't forget the spare tire, ashtray, and side airbags!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline KawaC14

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2016, 05:00:57 PM »
As a relatively new C14 driver,  all I know is I really like the bike. It's definitely a love/hate relationship.  I love the power, comfort and the over all "feel" of the bike, but I hate the 3D jigsaw puzzle you have to do to access anything. Mine is a 2012. As I contemplate my next bike I'm looking at the Beemer for a future purchase but my mind still strays back to a new C14! It would be a shame to discontinue them.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2016, 08:04:41 PM »
As a relatively new C14 driver,  all I know is I really like the bike. It's definitely a love/hate relationship.  I love the power, comfort and the over all "feel" of the bike, but I hate the 3D jigsaw puzzle you have to do to access anything.

Yeah, maintenance is a PITA; nothing like my other bikes were.  Getting to anything is complicated and tedious.  But at least it is reliable (well, except the tire pressure sensors).

Quote
Mine is a 2012. As I contemplate my next bike I'm looking at the Beemer for a future purchase but my mind still strays back to a new C14! It would be a shame to discontinue them.

I would certainly wait to see what happens.  BMW makes a nice bike, but many believe (as do I) that that Concours is just as nice yet more reliable, and there is no question it is much less expensive.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Conniesaki

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Re: Sold my Concours to get something different
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2016, 08:51:22 PM »
...
Please site your source.
...

Did you want him to place his source somewhere?

Or did you mean cite?