Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Texas on December 10, 2016, 10:14:32 PM
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I sold my 2009 Kawasaki Concours. I'd had it for six years which is a lot longer than I've ever had a bike. I usually keep a bike for a few years and then get something else. But I really liked the Concours. I rode it from my home in central Texas to the Grand Canyon via Durango, Ouray, Telluride and the four corners. It was a great trip and the Concours was the perfect bike. But after six years I wanted something new and different. To replace it I started looking at everything including KTM, BMW, Ducati and Yamaha. I felt in love with a Ducati Multi and then a couple of different BMW's. Then I almost got a 2016 Yamaha FJR1300. But in the end none of these great bikes grabbed me enough to make me buy it. After looking and looking and looking I finally bought a new bike:
A 2016 Kawasaki Concours (Metallic Moondust Gray)
The smile on my face might be even bigger than when I first got my 2009 Concours.
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I'm sure that you will love your new Connie, I love mine and think that its the best one so far
BTW you have also chosen the fastest colour ;)
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When I bought my Concours I really liked it but after I got Steve's flash I began to love it. It pretty much covers all the things I want in a bike and has become my "go to" bike. This is first bike (of MANY) that I ever was willing to drop serious bucks on farkles and it is as close to perfect for my needs as I will get. I don't see ever letting it leave from the stable. I'll ride it until either it or myself dies, whichever comes first...
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I sold my 2009 Kawasaki Concours. [...] After looking and looking and looking I finally bought a new bike:
A 2016 Kawasaki Concours (Metallic Moondust Gray)
The smile on my face might be even bigger than when I first got my 2009 Concours.
You are not the first to do that! Sometimes it is just time for a newer one. Plus you get all the 2nd gen features. The grass is not always greener.
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When I bought my Concours I really liked it but after I got Steve's flash I began to love it.
Yep. When you think you are tired of the Concours (or even when not), it is time to flash!
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I know the feeling... after my 09 I bought a ... 13. If I sell my 13 I would buy another C14. Meanwhile I am looking forward to the MY18, as I believe it will be a new massive re-design. Keep in mind that the 1400GTR is no longer available in Europe... something tell me a new one is in the pipeline.
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Yep. When you think you are tired of the Concours (or even when not), it is time to flash!
The flash makes a very satisfying bike to ride. In other news:
Really cold here at the moment (22-35 degrees - yeah, temperature perception is relative). Somebody needs to come up with some snap on and removeable full length, fairing wings like oversized Baker AirWings for winter adventures. Temps make me miss my C-10 (cold is what made me thing about something "different" to the C-14). But this shall pass and the C-14 is safe.
Keep us informed!
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I know the feeling... after my 09 I bought a ... 13. If I sell my 13 I would buy another C14. Meanwhile I am looking forward to the MY18, as I believe it will be a new massive re-design. Keep in mind that the 1400GTR is no longer available in Europe... something tell me a new one is in the pipeline.
None of us mere mortals can really know, but I agree that the '17 is almost certainly the last Gen2 C14. It is a nice, even, 10-year run of the C14 and the competition has put lots of pressure on things like cruise, suspension, headlights, etc. But it shows just how far advanced the C14 design was to last this long and STILL be at or very near the top of the concept.
What's up next? Gen3? Or something totally new? Or will they drop the concept completely? The latter seems unthinkable, considering how long the C10 and C14 have been around. I am not sure why the '17 is showing in the USA and CA but not EU.
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...Kawasaki decided not to make the required changes to comply with Euro4 standards. Meanwhile they made those changes on the ZZR1400 (Z14R).
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The EU4 reads like the KDS system used on the c14 would have to be scrapped in favor of OBD1 standards. Costly proposition.
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...Kawasaki decided not to make the required changes to comply with Euro4 standards. Meanwhile they made those changes on the ZZR1400 (Z14R).
Correct, I'm hoping the C14 wont be dropped altogether. It has never been a big seller, most manufacturers have a Big Tourer at the top of their range of bikes, I can't see KHI breaking tradition, plus it would be a great opportunity for KHI to really update the current C14
The Current ZZR 1400 (1441cc) engine does comply with Euro 4 emission requirements so maybe a 'de-tuned' version of that is on the cards ;)
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so maybe a 'de-tuned' version of that is on the cards
It would not be "de-tuned", it is just a different tuning. It is actually not a "tuning" anyway, it is a setup. "Tuning" implies no physical changes, just adjustments to settings like what is done with the reflashing of the ECU.
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If they continue it I think they'll stay with a VVT engine and add throttle-by-wire.
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I wonder it the 1,441 cc will motivate them to label it a C-15?
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It would not be "de-tuned", it is just a different tuning. It is actually not a "tuning" anyway, it is a setup. "Tuning" implies no physical changes, just adjustments to settings like what is done with the reflashing of the ECU.
I think it was understood what I meant...Thanks for your correction :)
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Here ya go O.C. ----- :1DeadBanana
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:) ;) Apt
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I wonder it the 1,441 cc will motivate them to label it a C-15?
It shouldn't, unless they can get it to or above 1,450, then they can round it up!
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If they continue it I think they'll stay with a VVT engine and add throttle-by-wire.
Both are probable; there is no way they would introduce something new without throttle-by-wire, and VVT seems very likely and works well for our configuration (which is designed (not DETUNED) for better low-end response, reliability, low vibration, comfort and effective cruising while still offering ample power for the sport time).
But there is this trend in making engines smaller now (cars and bikes) both for emissions and mileage, so maybe a C13? I really hope they don't go in that direction unless they plan on offering it with a supercharger.... in which case maybe a C11s? (Very unlikely).
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It would not be "de-tuned", it is just a different tuning.
Every time you make this "correction" I have to wonder if you actually rode a ZX-14. The C14 is a detuned version, whichever way you slice it. Nobody needs the ZX power, but then again, nobody needs the C14 power.
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Every time you make this "correction" I have to wonder if you actually rode a ZX-14. The C14 is a detuned version, whichever way you slice it. Nobody needs the ZX power, but then again, nobody needs the C14 power.
As I have said many times, it is not de-tuned. In no way, shape or fashion. That implies it was simply neutered, incorrectly designed, and/or incorrectly programmed, and there is zero sense in saying such a thing. The C14's engine design, like all designs, is a compromise or balance between various competing factors. Maximum top raw power at all costs = worst fuel economy, unfriendly handling in certain conditions, less reliability, more noise, less comfort when cruising, less lower end power, a less predictable power curve, and more.
Anyone who says the C14 is a "de-tuned" ZX is completely discounting all other factors and is essentially just insulting the designers and engineers and it makes the one saying it the bike sound snobby or just plain uninformed. The word "tune" doesn't simply apply in that context. The ZX doesn't even have variable valve timing. It is a different head, different exhaust, different intake, different throttle bodies, different pistons; none of that is a "tune", it is a totally different implementation of roughly the same engine block. It was designed that way specifically to meet the demands and role of a sport tourer.... just like replacing the chain drive with a shaft drive, moving the pegs, raising the bars, having bigger mirrors, adding luggage, heated grips, adjustable windshield, and many other changes. Kawasaki isn't stupid. If the objective was to just take a ZX and "de-tune" it, they could have left the exact same engine in it as the ZX and destroyed the mapping of the injection system (and THAT would be a "tune"). And in the process they would have saved TONS of time, money, research, parts inventory, documentation changes, and tooling. Oh, and the resulting bike would have been less expensive, too.
The only intentional "munged" tuning done on the C14 is the same thing done on EVERY factory street bike (ZX included) for decades past by every manufacturer. And that is what is done mostly to meet emissions laws and as a safety margin. To reverse that, you can reflash the ECU on FI engines or rejet the carbs on non FI engines. The rejetting kit I put in my ZRX did the same thing for that bike that the Guhl or Steve's reflashing does on the C14 and the same thing the reflashing options do for the ZX.
The Concours is not a ZX, it isn't supposed to be. It is not "inferior" to a ZX nor a detuned ZX, it is a different bike with different objectives, designed to operate and perform differently. And the word "performance" doesn't just mean highest peak horsepower or fastest off a line just like the best performance of musical piece isn't just the loudest or the fastest rendition.
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Different drive train as well..
One can de-tune an engine by doing all sorts of things such as changing cams, heads, fuel injection system, computer set up, exhaust and a myriad of other things as well. One could do all of these things to a ZX-14 and it would still be a ZX-14, not as fast, but still a ZX-14. We ride a C14 Sport Tourer. It is not a ZX-14. It will never be a ZX-14. It will always be a C14/GTR. One can spend gobs of money for performance improvements but it will still be a C14/GTR, faster, but still a C14/GTR. A ZX-14 is not just the engine, it's a complete well engineered package. A C14/GTR is not just an engine, it's a complete well engineered package.
So if I were to have an opinion on this, I'd say I'm in Max's camp in that it is not a de-tuned ZX-14.
However, if one feels that it's a de-tuned ZX-14 and that makes one feel good about their bike then that's ok. I like the C-14 the way it is, with some modifications of course, but it's still a C14.
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As I have said many times, it is not de-tuned. In no way, shape or fashion. That implies it was simply neutered, incorrectly designed, and/or incorrectly programmed, and there is zero sense in saying such a thing. {snip}
The word "tune" is in the term "de-tuned", and one of the definitions of the word "tune" (according to https://www.google.com/#q=tune (https://www.google.com/#q=tune)) is:
tune /t(y)o͞on/ verb - 4. "adjust or adapt (something) to a particular purpose or situation."
Maybe it's actually the "de-" part of de-tuned you don't like.
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The word "tune" is in the term "de-tuned", and one of the definitions of the word "tune" (according to https://www.google.com/#q=tune (https://www.google.com/#q=tune)) is:
tune /t(y)o͞on/ verb - 4. "adjust or adapt (something) to a particular purpose or situation."
Adjust, not change. When you tune a violin, you adjust the length of the strings, you are are not replacing all the strings with something different or changing the shape of the style. When you tune a radio, you are adjusting the dial until you receive a radio station, you are not adding new circuitry or replacing a blown fuse. When you tune up a car, you might adjust the spark plug gaps, adjust the throttle linkage, or adjust the sync between the throttle bodies, you are not replacing the head or putting in different pistons.
According to Webster's, "tune" in relation to a vehicle, is:
"to adjust (a motor, mechanism, or the like) for proper functioning. "
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/tune?s=t (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/tune?s=t)
Detuned then means it is not properly functioning or was adjusted such that it is not functioning properly.
Maybe it's actually the "de-" part of de-tuned you don't like.
I don't like either part, because both are wrong.
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I really must go and De-Tune my sock drawer :thumbs: :1DeadBanana
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I just learned that 2 + 2 = 5 if it makes me feel good. The day was not wasted.
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I just learned that 2 + 2 = 5 if it makes me feel good. The day was not wasted.
Agreed +1 :)
For the benefit of others
detune
diːˈtjuːn/
verb
past tense: de-tuned; past participle: de-tuned
1.
cause (a musical instrument) to become out of tune.
2.
reduce the performance or efficiency of (a motor vehicle or engine) by adjustment.
"a slightly detuned version of a professional rally racer"
Also in my initial use of the De-tuned expression I captioned the word/s De-tuned in apostrophes, thus(' de tuned') not Quotation marks, thus (" de tuned")
Interestingly, Detuned can be spelt in different ways.
I never knew there could be so much fun resulting from the interpretation of expressions within a post, thanks guys (no sexism intended) :rotflmao: :chugbeer:
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Oh, this is nothing.... :rotflmao:
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For the benefit of others
I think you mean amusement.
Please cite your source. According to major dictionaries, there is really no such word as "detune". And the lay reference in wikionary has no such definition.
Better amusement:
You Can Tune a Piano, but You Can't Tuna Fish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can_Tune_a_Piano,_but_You_Can%27t_Tuna_Fish
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I think you mean amusement.
Please site your source. According to major dictionaries, there is really no such word as "detune". And the lay reference in wikionary has no such definition.
Better amusement:
You Can Tune a Piano, but You Can't Tuna Fish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can_Tune_a_Piano,_but_You_Can%27t_Tuna_Fish
Nah I meant what I said, thanks Maxtog ;)
Oh and source of information is the Oxford English Dictionary ..QED :)
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/detune
I like the Piano and Tuna fish joke BTW :)
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Oh and source of information is the Oxford English Dictionary ..QED :)
Interesting... must be one of those American vs. British things.
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I just learned that 2 + 2 = 5 if it makes me feel good. The day was not wasted.
LOL !!
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If the next gen Concours adds cruise, maybe locking bags using the remote (like the BMW K1600GT) and maybe better stock wind protection and more adjustment on the bars and pegs, it could be quite the contender to the big BMW at a fraction of the cost.
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De-tune of the day...
http://youtu.be/qEuV82GqQnE (http://youtu.be/qEuV82GqQnE)
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If the next gen Concours adds cruise, maybe locking bags using the remote (like the BMW K1600GT) and maybe better stock wind protection and more adjustment on the bars and pegs, it could be quite the contender to the big BMW at a fraction of the cost.
I would be SHOCKED if the next version didn't include cruise because with throttle-by-wire, it is essentially a zero cost addition. Remotely locking bags would be kinda neat, but wouldn't sway me one way or another. If they did that, add in remote locking for the gas cap! More adjustability is always nice. I expect it will have projector LED headlights, and LED turn/marker/tail lights too, it is just the new norm.
My wish list includes the ability to see more on the computer display at once (and with more customizing options), to have TPS that acts faster and has no internal battery to replace, integrated alarm system would be very nice, especially if it had a remote tamper alert. Not sure how much I care about electronically adjustable suspension, but it would be nice to have. Would love some type of auto-leveling headlight for cornering. If MPG doesn't increase, it really needs at least another 1/2 gal fuel capacity. Factory, integrated tip-over protection bars/pads would be very nice.
One of those things that would make me very unhappy would be if they removed the large, dual analog dials. If they wanted to minic analog on a huge fast digital screen, that would be OK.... but I don't think that will arrive (I would guess a somewhat larger and color display).
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Cup holders....it must have cup holders.
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Cup holders....it must have cup holders.
Don't forget the spare tire, ashtray, and side airbags!
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As a relatively new C14 driver, all I know is I really like the bike. It's definitely a love/hate relationship. I love the power, comfort and the over all "feel" of the bike, but I hate the 3D jigsaw puzzle you have to do to access anything. Mine is a 2012. As I contemplate my next bike I'm looking at the Beemer for a future purchase but my mind still strays back to a new C14! It would be a shame to discontinue them.
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As a relatively new C14 driver, all I know is I really like the bike. It's definitely a love/hate relationship. I love the power, comfort and the over all "feel" of the bike, but I hate the 3D jigsaw puzzle you have to do to access anything.
Yeah, maintenance is a PITA; nothing like my other bikes were. Getting to anything is complicated and tedious. But at least it is reliable (well, except the tire pressure sensors).
Mine is a 2012. As I contemplate my next bike I'm looking at the Beemer for a future purchase but my mind still strays back to a new C14! It would be a shame to discontinue them.
I would certainly wait to see what happens. BMW makes a nice bike, but many believe (as do I) that that Concours is just as nice yet more reliable, and there is no question it is much less expensive.
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Please site your source.
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Did you want him to place his source somewhere?
Or did you mean cite?
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Did you want him to place his source somewhere?
Or did you mean cite?
Cite of course. Thanks
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And not Sauce :)
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I would be SHOCKED if the next version didn't include cruise because with throttle-by-wire, it is essentially a zero cost addition. Remotely locking bags would be kinda neat, but wouldn't sway me one way or another. If they did that, add in remote locking for the gas cap! More adjustability is always nice. I expect it will have projector LED headlights, and LED turn/marker/tail lights too, it is just the new norm.
My wish list includes the ability to see more on the computer display at once (and with more customizing options), to have TPS that acts faster and has no internal battery to replace, integrated alarm system would be very nice, especially if it had a remote tamper alert. Not sure how much I care about electronically adjustable suspension, but it would be nice to have. Would love some type of auto-leveling headlight for cornering. If MPG doesn't increase, it really needs at least another 1/2 gal fuel capacity. Factory, integrated tip-over protection bars/pads would be very nice.
One of those things that would make me very unhappy would be if they removed the large, dual analog dials. If they wanted to minic analog on a huge fast digital screen, that would be OK.... but I don't think that will arrive (I would guess a somewhat larger and color display).
Agreed....although the Super Tenere I owned had a great instrument panel which was informative and very easy to read in all light conditions, the main thing that p*ssed me off about it was that the Gear position indication was immediately lost when pulling in the clutch, and the outside temperature guage took its reading from the induction side of the fuel system which meant it was always out of sync with external temperature ...oh and the speedometer read about 10% fast, which I guess is better than reading slow
Picture here
(http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n326/oldeconey/2014-06-07%2011.08.51_zpsikz6tyrn.jpg)
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To those who think the c-14 is a detuned zx14, let's look at it another way. There's nothing de-tuned about the c-14 . The zx 14 is simply a hotrodded c-14 engine. :deadhorse: Steve
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I would be SHOCKED if the next version didn't include cruise because with throttle-by-wire, it is essentially a zero cost addition. Remotely locking bags would be kinda neat, but wouldn't sway me one way or another. If they did that, add in remote locking for the gas cap! More adjustability is always nice. I expect it will have projector LED headlights, and LED turn/marker/tail lights too, it is just the new norm.
My wish list includes the ability to see more on the computer display at once (and with more customizing options), to have TPS that acts faster and has no internal battery to replace, integrated alarm system would be very nice, especially if it had a remote tamper alert. Not sure how much I care about electronically adjustable suspension, but it would be nice to have. Would love some type of auto-leveling headlight for cornering. If MPG doesn't increase, it really needs at least another 1/2 gal fuel capacity. Factory, integrated tip-over protection bars/pads would be very nice.
One of those things that would make me very unhappy would be if they removed the large, dual analog dials. If they wanted to minic analog on a huge fast digital screen, that would be OK.... but I don't think that will arrive (I would guess a somewhat larger and color display).
I agree with the lighting and the increase in tank size or a corresponding change in MPG. It should have a solid 250 mile range before hitting reserve or dash warning.
I could care less about the analog gauges as I rarely look at either one. I use the GPS almost exclusively for speed information. A display like the Super Ténéré would be fine minus the gnarly surround framing and the disappearing gear indicator.
Tip over protection is a must, just design it into the bike like the Honda did with the STs. It doesn't need to be perfect but it should be robust and protect 99% for a 0mph tip over and have easily replaceable slider covers.
Electronically adjustable suspension would be a great option. I've never had it but almost all that have it like it or pretend to. Like I said, a great OPTION along with the remote locking bags. Not stock but they could call it the Option package filled with a mix of stuff including a loud horn. If they could find a couple of good mounting spots (1 front 1 rear) I guess they could even have cup holders in the option package.
Assuming it will be throttle by wire, so yes to the stock cruise control.
Battery-less TPMS...I'm not familiar with the current cost of these so maybe, (Would be nice to keep even the Option packaged bike below $20 grand) but certainly an externally replaceable battery and a wheel designed (balanced) for it so that the wheel weights don't always seem to end up opposite the valve stem like they do now on my C14.
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Agreed....although the Super Tenere I owned had a great instrument panel which was informative and very easy to read in all light conditions, [photo]
While it is not bad, I still do not like digital speedometers, which is what that is showing. I want a nice, analog dial for both speedometer and tachometer. I think the C14/ZX dash is the only ones left out there with that.
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Electronically adjustable suspension would be a great option. I've never had it but almost all that have it like it or pretend to. Like I said, a great OPTION along with the remote locking bags. Not stock but they could call it the Option package filled with a mix of stuff including a loud horn.
I am certainly not opposed to having options. But I think Kawasaki (and the dealers) found it too difficult to stage different sub-models, especially for the Concours, which is not a big seller (neither is the ZX). Just like they have so few color options for the same reason- dealers will complain bitterly when stuck with the "wrong" (non-selling) variant. The example was the ABS vs non-ABS.... they gave up pretty quickly and just make ABS standard. Of course, it might just be that the non-ABS sales were dismal.
Although they have TONS of edge on BMW, their price point competition will always be with Yamaha and Honda. So you probably won't see the price pull much head of either of their top-end bikes.
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De-tune of the day...
De tune. Good one, Jim ;)
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De-tune of the day...
http://youtu.be/qEuV82GqQnE (http://youtu.be/qEuV82GqQnE)
REALLY!
Nude sex movie's
We want more :o
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As I have said many times, it is not de-tuned. In no way, shape or fashion. That implies it was...
(Max repeating himself because... no idea... he has a keyboard...)
(more of the same)
(and still more of the same)
...highest peak horsepower or fastest off a line just like the best performance of musical piece isn't just the loudest or the fastest rendition.
So: no drivy ZX?
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As I have said many times, it is not de-tuned. In no way, shape or fashion. That implies it was...
(Max repeating himself because... no idea... he has a keyboard...)
(more of the same)
(and still more of the same)
...highest peak horsepower or fastest off a line just like the best performance of musical piece isn't just the loudest or the fastest rendition.
You're a funny guy Martin. ;D
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You're a funny guy Martin. ;D
I do mean to put it humorously, but I seriously wonder if Max drove the ZX-14.
We can throw dictionaries at each other the whole day but when there are different versions of an engine it's customary to speak of detuned versions for the less powerful variants. In that line, the C14's engine is precisely that. The fact that it offers (not always, but in this case it does) advantages like reliability, fuel economy or whatever, is what drives the engineers to do it. But whoever tries the ZX-14 will notice immediately that it packs so, so much power that a passenger, luggage and, heck! why not a caravan, pose no challenge.
Even more: that praised VVT offering extra torque on the C14 is worthless when you have as much power as a ZX-14 does. Nobody who drove a ZX-14 can even think that there's any shortage of torque (unlike a liter bike, which has the same peak power but you have to find it; instead, 1400cc push everywhere in the rev range). Why the C14 has VVT is still a mystery to me, other than the obvious marketing value; a bit like KI-PASS. The only way to know would be to have 2 identical engines, one with and one without VVT, to try and compare. Since we don't have the second, I tried the next thing: the ZX-14. I can tell you this: it doesn't need VVT.
Max made a very good point (if he didn't talk so much) a while ago when he mentioned that the reliability in a ZX-14 is secondary, since the "life expectancy" of those machines is rather short, at least shorter than of a C14. Looking at the second hand bikes confirms this. ZX-14s with more than 25 thousand miles are rare, although it's an older model than the C14, of which I see many with over 50 thousand miles and we all know that such an engine is barely broken in.
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My C-14 with Steve's flash offers exceptional performance but my stock ZX-14R is at another level of performance entirely. Kawasaki didn't leave much on the table performance-wise with the ZX-14R.
I am not really concerned regarding longevity on the ZX-14R since I will not be riding it as much as the C-14 but when I do... Oh yeah!
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I do mean to put it humorously, but I seriously wonder if Max drove the ZX-14.
It is certainly OK to ask, although I don't think it is relevant. No, I haven't. But I don't need to...
Saying the ZX-14 has lots of power- power here, power there, although very true, doesn't change my stance. I can just as easily say the ZX-14 is a de-tuned C14. It was de-tuned in reliability performance, and de-tuned comfort performance, etc at the expense of gaining acceleration performance. Silly, isn't it? But just as valid a construct. But try saying that on a ZX forum and see how they like it. It is not a matter of "tuning", it is "design". "De" indicates "removed" or "removal" or such, combined with "tuned", it pretty clearly implies intentional or accidental inferiority. The C14 engine isn't inferior, it does what it was designed to do quite well. You, and perhaps others, might not appreciate or understand all that Kawasaki did with the C14 (some things I don't understand, myself), and that is OK, but that doesn't mean it was without valid purpose.
Do you really think Kawasaki designed and implemented an expensive VVT for the C14 (and ONLY the C14) as just a marketing gimmick?? And although not really about the engine, KI-Pass is not a marketing gimmick, it contains perfectly useful and valid features. Some might not like them, both others love those features. Personally, I love not having to fiddle with keys and just keeping a fob in my pocket (is it worth all the complexity...that is a good question, but a different topic).
It would have been much easier and cheaper for Kawasaki to have identical engines in both bikes. There are good reasons they didn't. They didn't make those changes to cause the Concours not perform well and the ZX shine in comparison; they created two different engines with different sets of performance goals, both performing their roles very well.
As for performance, I will end with the relevant Webster's definition, which I think fits really well:
"The manner in which or the efficiency with which something reacts or fulfills its intended purpose."
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De nutted
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sigh
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I owned one of the early ZZR 1400 which I bought new in 2006/7
It was a great bike with 190PS available (200PS with RAM Air)
I exchanged it for the newly released GTR1400 (Concourse) in 2009.
The ZZR was a missile and much faster than the GTR, a comparison I was able to make back to back. the ZZR 1400 gave me arms like an Orangutan and a neck like a Giraffe, plus it hurt my back :rotflmao:
The GTR basically used the proven ZZR 1400 engine which featured modifications to provide a more usable power for a Sports Touring bike, and at its launch the U.K motorcycle press described the much awaited GTR as having a de-tuned ZZR engine
We are only splitting hairs and it really isn't important as after all the GTR or Connie is a superb bike
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It is certainly OK to ask, although I don't think it is relevant. No, I haven't. But I don't need to...
Saying the ZX-14 has lots of power- power here, power there, although very true, doesn't change my stance.
Don't worry. For those of us that have been here for a while, we never expected you do such thing. And I'm sorry to say that I skipped the rest of your post.
The GTR basically used the proven ZZR 1400 engine which featured modifications to provide a more usable power for a Sports Touring bike, and at its launch the U.K motorcycle press described the much awaited GTR as having a de-tuned ZZR engine
We are only splitting hairs and it really isn't important as after all the GTR or Connie is a superb bike.
That sums it up rather nicely. My bike has reached the 128000 km / 79500 miles and only the brakes are bugging me, as in getting-old-and-need-trouble-shooting bugging me, and only because I'm a bit of an overexcited, Alps carving idiot who forgets that this is not a pure bred sports bike and punished those brakes a lot. If my mechanic doesn't find what's wrong with it, I know what I will replace my 1400GTR with, just like the OP did. That's one of the few upsides of living in Germany: they look after their machines, so I won't have any qualms buying a low mileage, second hand unit at a good price.
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...... when there are different versions of an engine it's customary to speak of detuned versions for the less powerful variants. In that line, the C14's engine is precisely that.
I'm going with this :goodpost:
I'm not saying that max' doesn't have a point, he does, over and over and over :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :doh:....but traditionally or customarily I agree with what martin says above.
And I'm sorry to say that I skipped the rest of your post.
No you aren't. (http://rs717.pbsrc.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys/smiley-pinocchio-liar.gif~c200)..I think you enjoyed saying that. :rotflmao:
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Don't worry. For those of us that have been here for a while, we never expected you do such thing.
Then you know me less that you think, since I am quite readily willing to change my stance on all kinds of things when I see a logical/compelling argument or digest new information about a topic. I understand others' stances in this case (and better now than when it started), but I still disagree. And it is OK to disagree; and I respect others' well-founded opinions. What I don't respect is when people turn things into popularity contests or personal attacks. Hasn't been too bad with this thread, thankfully. But do feel free to try and speak for everyone who has "been here a while."
" And I'm sorry to say that I skipped the rest of your post."
And I'm not sorry to say that I am neither surprised nor phased. But I can say that I have learned new things in the discussion (those parts that actually were discussion) and hope others have, too. That really is one of the main purposes of having discussions on forums in the first place.
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I'm not saying that max' doesn't have a point, he does, over and over and over :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :doh:...
:chugbeer:
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This thread has run it's course..