Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: shaggs147 on April 01, 2015, 06:05:41 PM
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Hi everyone and greetings from the UK!
After reading various posts all over the internet, including here, I decided to go ahead and fit a Rostra Cruise Control for my trip to Italy in 5 weeks. I imported the kit from Kartronix in the US via ebay.
I followed various guides from here, Murphs Kits, and Youtube, and the install seemed to go ok. I set the DIP switches, and carried out the diagnostic tests, which all passed - great!
I took the bike out and rode at various speeds, but no matter what I did, the cruise control just would not set and engage. I have the rocker style control switch with the ''on'' and ''set'' LED's. The set LED will not light up, so its acting as if the CC is not engaging, therefore not sending a set signal back to the control switch LED via the orange wire through a relay.
I have a feeling that the Rostra is faulty, but if anyone has had a similar experience and knows a solution then I'd really appreciate some advice.
Cheers everyone,
Mark
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No problem, we can walk you through this. And watch out, I know the guy who wrote the tutorial on Murph's site and he is a little shaky.... :-)
First of all, change switch #11 to the other way from the tutorial. That is an old version and has not been updated.
See if that cures your problem; I believe it will if your system passed the diagnostic tests including brake light and VSS pulse tests. If not, just post back here and we will sort it out as you folks say. ;) I have helped with dozens of these installs and everyone has been successful so I am quite sure we can get your CC running in less than five weeks; after all, we do not want you being embarrassed in front of Italians.... ;D
Brian
Hi everyone and greetings from the UK!
After reading various posts all over the internet, including here, I decided to go ahead and fit a Rostra Cruise Control for my trip to Italy in 5 weeks. I imported the kit from Kartronix in the US via ebay.
I followed various guides from here, Murphs Kits, and Youtube, and the install seemed to go ok. I set the DIP switches, and carried out the diagnostic tests, which all passed - great!
I took the bike out and rode at various speeds, but no matter what I did, the cruise control just would not set and engage. I have the rocker style control switch with the ''on'' and ''set'' LED's. The set LED will not light up, so its acting as if the CC is not engaging, therefore not sending a set signal back to the control switch LED via the orange wire through a relay.
I have a feeling that the Rostra is faulty, but if anyone has had a similar experience and knows a solution then I'd really appreciate some advice.
Cheers everyone,
Mark
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One important thing to go back and check is how the brake relay was wired, and that you got the proper relay! There are 2 different types of relays- N/O & N/C... They both look identical, numbering of the posts and all. You must use a normally closed type relay.
Usually, the number one cause for the Rostra not engaging is the unit DOES NOT SEE GROUND.
Ya might check that, and check that the relay clicks when either brake is applied.
If it does, then confirm with a 12V tester that the relay is opening the ground when the brake is applied.
Ground loop through the relay should be closed until the brakes are applied, then it opens, and Rostra stops working and disengages.
If you have the type of switch that has both the power on and the "ENGAGED" light, it requires the same normally closed relay installed in that circuit as well.
If it passes diagnostic, but refuses to engage, this may be your problem.
HTH's, good luck! You will LOVE the Rostra on long trips when you get it going!
Can't take a long trip w/o mine!
Bob
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With all due respect Bob, I do not believe that is correct. Relays are all normally closed by nature but have normally open and normally closed contacts in the same relay. One can purchase a Normally Open relay only but one cannot purchase a Normally Closed relay only- that would be a five- wire relay, a standard, and would come with both NC and NO contacts so that either / both can be used.
As long as the relay being used has five (5) electrical contacts, it is the correct 'type' of relay (assuming of course it is a 12 volt relay, etc. but that would all be a given as long as the relay was purchased for automotive / vehicular use).
The world standard five (5) contacts are as follows:
30
85
86
87
87A
A four (4) pin relay uses the same contacts and performs the same function except the NC pin, #87A, is missing. The pins are as follows:
30
85
86
87
As can be seen here, nothing bad will happen if one tries to use a four pin relay in place of a five pin relay other than it cannot be properly wired, and it will not work. I am not joking when I say this: what I mean is that there is no harm in having the wrong relay as the pin numbers and functions are identical and world- wide in standard. For a Rostra CC install, a five pin relay is required.
I am just posting this as information others may be able to use, not to 'tweak your nose' or challenge you at all. No insult intended.
Brian
One important thing to go back and check is how the brake relay was wired, and that you got the proper relay! There are 2 different types of relays- N/O & N/C... They both look identical, numbering of the posts and all. You must use a normally closed type relay.
Usually, the number one cause for the Rostra not engaging is the unit DOES NOT SEE GROUND.
Ya might check that, and check that the relay clicks when either brake is applied.
If it does, then confirm with a 12V tester that the relay is opening the ground when the brake is applied.
Ground loop through the relay should be closed until the brakes are applied, then it opens, and Rostra stops working and disengages.
If you have the type of switch that has both the power on and the "ENGAGED" light, it requires the same normally closed relay installed in that circuit as well.
If it passes diagnostic, but refuses to engage, this may be your problem.
HTH's, good luck! You will LOVE the Rostra on long trips when you get it going!
Can't take a long trip w/o mine!
Bob
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No problem Bro... :D
But I just went through this with my friend Tim's CC install.
I advised him to get his relay from Murph, but he instead bought one off of Ebay.
Looked right, numbered right... Worked exactly backward.
Started checking around locally... Everywhere. They all sold a N/O relay. When energized, it would close... Azz backwards.
Ordered the one from Murph that is the part number you list in your tutorial. Unenergized, it's closed. Energized it opens.
They look the same, but work the opposite.
That's just been my experience recently.
Let me also say, I never even thought about that until this happened! It delayed us 3 days from finishing his install, but thanks to Murph's fast response (as always!) we got it going.
With that said, I'll end with this... I never want to post anything that would mislead someone.
Not my intention...ever. But after 8 of these installs now, the Rostra NOT seeing ground has been a reoccurring issue if it doesn't work.
Just thought I'd throw that out there to him, since I ran into that situation recently.
But, I bow to your superior intellect, sir! When it comes to the Rostra, you be da man!
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Bookmarked this and a couple other threads - just ordered one from Murph!
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Good- it can be easy to ruffle feathers on the 'Net....
Please do not bow to me or anyone else- let us just discuss this (or any other) matter and perhaps we can come to a better understanding together than we would separately. I really want to know and especially, to spread the correct information whether I was right or wrong at the beginning of any discussion, and I am always happy to be corrected as that means that better information is being spread around.
You are quite correct in that the unit not being connected to a solid ground will absolutely prevent the CC from engaging, and this is a fairly common problem with Rostra installations. Your information was good, I was merely commenting on the relay specifically.
This is a generic mechanical drawing as well as schematic of a standard (ISO standard) relay.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/ISO_Relay_Pinout.jpg) (http://s45.photobucket.com/user/BDF08012008/media/ISO_Relay_Pinout.jpg.html)
All relays should be this way. The only variation is that some relays have a diode around the coil to prevent a fly-back voltage from being generated by the coil; this <may> be what you ran into and if so, then the coil needs to be wired with specific polarities on pins 85 and 86 and they cannot be reversed. This will be shown on the schematic printed on the relay body, and can be found using a standard VOM by reading the resistance across the coil in both directions; if there is a significant difference in readings, the relay has a diode and must be wired with the positive lead going to the pin on the relay that provided the greater resistance. But the relay behavior or logic is always the same; four pin relays are Normally Open while five pin relays are both Normally Open and Normally Closed. This is why I said earlier one cannot purchase a four pin, Normally Closed (NC) relay; instead a five pin relay must be used and the NO pin just left unattached if a NC relay is needed.
Over the years of the C-14 and Rostra CC installations, it really has become a sort of a group project. Quite a few people have contributed along the way and some very good ideas and methods have been contributed long after the initial installations started back in '07 or '08. So I encourage anyone and everyone to share info., notes, "watch out for's" as well as different methods of mounting components, attaching cables, etc., etc. As I said, your information about the unit not sensing ground is an excellent point and always a great place to start troubleshooting an installation that will not work. Thanks to you and everyone who has, and hopefully will continue. to add to the collective pot of Rostra wisdom.
Brian
No problem Bro... :D
But I just went through this with my friend Tim's CC install.
I advised him to get his relay from Murph, but he instead bought one off of Ebay.
Looked right, numbered right... Worked exactly backward.
Started checking around locally... Everywhere. They all sold a N/O relay. When energized, it would close... Azz backwards.
Ordered the one from Murph that is the part number you list in your tutorial. Unenergized, it's closed. Energized it opens.
They look the same, but work the opposite.
That's just been my experience recently.
Let me also say, I never even thought about that until this happened! It delayed us 3 days from finishing his install, but thanks to Murph's fast response (as always!) we got it going.
With that said, I'll end with this... I never want to post anything that would mislead someone.
Not my intention...ever. But after 8 of these installs now, the Rostra NOT seeing ground has been a reoccurring issue if it doesn't work.
Just thought I'd throw that out there to him, since I ran into that situation recently.
But, I bow to your superior intellect, sir! When it comes to the Rostra, you be da man!
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A big thanks to everyone for taking time out to reply, and a great tutorial by the way Brian! I'm in work at the moment, but will check out all your points by tomorrow morning and get back to you. Really appreciate it, thanks everyone. ;D
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Shaggs147,
If something is wrong with your Rostra unit, (not saying it can't happen...) it will be the first defective one I've heard of so far. The Rostras are very good units.
Very interested to hear what you figure out.
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There have been lots and lots of questions / problems during the installation of Rostra cruise control units on C-14's, and occasionally operational failures after the units are installed and working correctly. I thought I would start a thread about that very subject so that perhaps we can keep the Q&A sessions in one thread that anyone can reference in the future.
The question from another thread that got me thinking about creating this thread was: "As far as the CC goes, I havent had a chance to get into it yet. I was wondering about the switch as well. When I did the install, I was very thorough with sealing it up. I removes the silicone key pad from the cover and used silicone to seal it to the cover. Then once all was back together I sealed up the backside. Question.... I am getting a power light on the keypad as well as the engage light. So would this eliminate switch problems and also eliminate fuse problems?"
If a Rostra cruise control is used with an 'Engaged' light, and that light is being lit when the SET button is pressed, it means that all electrical connections throughout the bike are working correctly, including the switch. If the 'Engaged' light is lit and the cruise will NOT take over the throttle, it is a mechanical problem, most likely at the cable to throttle arm connection but possibly inside the Rostra actuator itself (although I have not heard of or seen this type of failure).
Brian
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Brian is not kidding about the "lots and lots of questions", and they constitute a large number of separate threads. Threads of related interest that people should also examine include (but not limited to):
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19256.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19256.0)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7611 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7611)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18655 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18655)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17695 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17695)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17835 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17835)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17801 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17801)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17670 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17670)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18707 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18707)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13539 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13539)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17190 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17190)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=14141 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=14141)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1675 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1675)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1822 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1822)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2252 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2252)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=14376 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=14376)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2855 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2855)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10868 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10868)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8805 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8805)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=841 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=841)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7575 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7575)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8324 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=8324)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7162 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7162)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3457 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=3457)
What we probably need is an incorporated wiki page that consolidates a lot of that valuable info into one place. If that doesn't work, I can always keep this thread "clean" by moving out any posts not by you, so you can keep this as the go-to/summary thread (if you want to do that, just let me know).
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Working on it...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=41.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=41.0)
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Just a quick question guys, should I be able to set the cruise control and get the green "set" LED to illuminate without riding the bike? It'll save some time doing test rides if I can get this sorted first.
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I would have to say no. I believe that the speed sensor need to have a signal sent to it, so the wheels need to be turning. Brian will be able to confirm or deny my minimal knowledge on this.
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Cool! I had not seen that before, unless it is something being done 'behind the curtain' until it is ready for unveiling.
Brian
Working on it...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=41.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?board=41.0)
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Yeah, the wiki is great but I just thought a real, living and breathing thread where people could post might be even better in this case. That way instead of just presenting fixed things, there could be discussion, expansion of things that do not real well (read: were not explained well enough the first time) and so forth. Besides that, while many problems are common, each person sees a slightly different set of symptoms and often thinks it is not the same as problem number 11 from a list.
Anyway, just a thought that might be helpful to folks, and make it more likely that questions would be answered on the topic. Often when technical questions are put in, say, a beer tasting thread, the people who can answer the question may never read that thread in the first place.
Brian
Brian is not kidding about the "lots and lots of questions", and they constitute a large number of separate threads. Threads of related interest that people should also examine include (but not limited to):
<snip>
What we probably need is an incorporated wiki page that consolidates a lot of that valuable info into one place. If that doesn't work, I can always keep this thread "clean" by moving out any posts not by you, so you can keep this as the go-to/summary thread (if you want to do that, just let me know).
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Ok thanks for the reply Nicole, I'll go and test the bike shortly.
Just carried out some checks again and all the diagnostic checks pass. It is wired as follows -
Red/Brown - Goes 12v positive when the "on" control switch is pressed.
Violet - Negative from Brake relay, switches 12v positive when brake is pulled.
Black - Negative
Yellow - Switches 12v positive when the "R/A" button is held down on switch assembly.
Brown - 12v Positive from ignition switch.
Grey - 5v square wave from Vss sensor.
Dark Green - Switches 12v positive when the "S/C" button is held down on switch assembly.
Dark Blue - Connected to ground (negative).
Light Green - I have this disconnected at the moment until I can get the CC working.
Orange - Connected to a relay coil to drive the "set" LED.
Switches set as follows -
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
off off on on on on off off off on off off
I'll report back soon with the results of the test ride
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Yep, the Rostra needs a to sense a stream of pulses from the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) at a minimum speed to engage. It won't work with the bike sitting still. On my bike, the minimum speed is about 20 MPH when the unit will engage.
Nicole, please do not dismiss your knowledge on this- you passed 'minimal' a while ago in my opinion. ;D
The Rostra can be tested without the bike moving by spinning the rear wheel while on the centerstand. However, I really do not like to recommend that method because the CC will not work correctly and it will jerk the throttle open and closed very quickly, making the bike pretty violent on the centerstand. Besides, if the unit passes all diagnostic steps, it will almost certainly work on the road so there is generally no need for the risky centerstand test.
Brian
I would have to say no. I believe that the speed sensor need to have a signal sent to it, so the wheels need to be turning. Brian will be able to confirm or deny my minimal knowledge on this.
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That all sounds great but how are you determining the brake relay is negative when it is off? It must be a low resistance path to ground; if the Rostra senses any appreciable resistance, it will not engage.
Brian
Ok thanks for the reply Nicole, I'll go and test the bike shortly.
Just carried out some checks again and all the diagnostic checks pass. It is wired as follows -
Red/Brown - Goes 12v positive when the "on" control switch is pressed.
Violet - Negative from Brake relay, switches 12v positive when brake is pulled.
Black - Negative
Yellow - Switches 12v positive when the "R/A" button is held down on switch assembly.
Brown - 12v Positive from ignition switch.
Grey - 5v square wave from Vss sensor.
Dark Green - Switches 12v positive when the "S/C" button is held down on switch assembly.
Dark Blue - Connected to ground (negative).
Light Green - I have this disconnected at the moment until I can get the CC working.
Orange - Connected to a relay coil to drive the "set" LED.
Switches set as follows -
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
off off on on on on off off off on off off
I'll report back soon with the results of the test ride
-
There have been lots and lots of questions / problems during the installation of Rostra cruise control units on C-14's, and occasionally operational failures after the units are installed and working correctly. I thought I would start a thread about that very subject so that perhaps we can keep the Q&A sessions in one thread that anyone can reference in the future.
The question from another thread that got me thinking about creating this thread was: "As far as the CC goes, I havent had a chance to get into it yet. I was wondering about the switch as well. When I did the install, I was very thorough with sealing it up. I removes the silicone key pad from the cover and used silicone to seal it to the cover. Then once all was back together I sealed up the backside. Question.... I am getting a power light on the keypad as well as the engage light. So would this eliminate switch problems and also eliminate fuse problems?"
If a Rostra cruise control is used with an 'Engaged' light, and that light is being lit when the SET button is pressed, it means that all electrical connections throughout the bike are working correctly, including the switch. If the 'Engaged' light is lit and the cruise will NOT take over the throttle, it is a mechanical problem, most likely at the cable to throttle arm connection but possibly inside the Rostra actuator itself (although I have not heard of or seen this type of failure).
Brian
I am very pleased to announce that my Rostra is once again working. Proudly I can say that my workmanship was not the cause of the problem. Instead it was this brass connector that attaches the cable end to the chain. I once again re-installed this connector and then scratched my head on how to keep it closed and prevent the problem from occurring again. Then I came up with the solution of soldering the ends of the brass connector closed. Hopefully this will keep working properly now, and interrupt a 1/4 cent piece of material to cause me discomfort on a long ride again. Let this be food for thought for anybody thinking of using these type of connectors that are included in the kit.
(http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah209/Sailor_chic/20150403_123422_zps29kzxmjh.jpg) (http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/Sailor_chic/media/20150403_123422_zps29kzxmjh.jpg.html)
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Yep, the Rostra needs a to sense a stream of pulses from the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) at a minimum speed to engage. It won't work with the bike sitting still. On my bike, the minimum speed is about 20 MPH when the unit will engage.
Nicole, please do not dismiss your knowledge on this- you passed 'minimal' a while ago in my opinion. ;D
The Rostra can be tested without the bike moving by spinning the rear wheel while on the centerstand. However, I really do not like to recommend that method because the CC will not work correctly and it will jerk the throttle open and closed very quickly, making the bike pretty violent on the centerstand. Besides, if the unit passes all diagnostic steps, it will almost certainly work on the road so there is generally no need for the risky centerstand test.
Brian
Thank-you Brian ;D
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Looks like what they have on pull chain light fixtures..
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Hi Brian, I checked it with a voltmeter. I can check it for resistance as well though just to be sure, if its that sensitive. I have used the negative from the accessory wire for the n/c connection through the relay.
Cheers,
Mark
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I used a plastic sleeve that I <believe> came with the hardware for installation, and slipped it over that chain joiner when done. Also, a piece of shrink- tubing will work wonderfully and is easy enough to remove in the future should that be necessary; if it is snug cold, then it does not even need to be shrunk down with any heat.
Nicole, soldering the connector is fine as long as you are sure no 'snots' (technical term) of solder or flux were left inside that might cause binding later. Any little sliver of solder could cause the ball ends to bind inside that connector if they got into just the right (or is that wrong) position. The problem is that it would shorten the throttle cable effective length because the link would bind at some angle and might not allow the throttle to return to idle.
I am not one to get too excited about what might happen but the cable linkage is really pretty touchy between the Rostra and a C-14's throttle arm. Not much room there and to be honest, the whole ball- chain thingy is a little shoddy to begin with.
And Jim, that IS a pull- chain connector or coupler. Rostra spared no expense.... as long as it was dirt cheap.... for the hardware in their CC's :-) To be fair, in an automotive connection it would not be a problem but on a motorcycle I am pretty wary of using bead chain and the connectors that go with them; my tutorial suggests using one of the pieces of aircraft cable with the Rostra and not any bead- chain.
Brian
I am very pleased to announce that my Rostra is once again working. Proudly I can say that my workmanship was not the cause of the problem. Instead it was this brass connector that attaches the cable end to the chain. I once again re-installed this connector and then scratched my head on how to keep it closed and prevent the problem from occurring again. Then I came up with the solution of soldering the ends of the brass connector closed. Hopefully this will keep working properly now, and interrupt a 1/4 cent piece of material to cause me discomfort on a long ride again. Let this be food for thought for anybody thinking of using these type of connectors that are included in the kit.
(http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah209/Sailor_chic/20150403_123422_zps29kzxmjh.jpg) (http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/Sailor_chic/media/20150403_123422_zps29kzxmjh.jpg.html)
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That is fine as long as the voltmeter was connected to +12 for the ground check and showed full battery voltage (whatever it is / was on your bike). What is not a good way to check it is to connect a voltmeter to ground and the relay leg on the other side and toggle the brake light on and off: that will result in a reading of system voltage and then close to zero but that is a false reading because a lack of connection to ground would also result in a close to zero reading. So if checking with a voltmeter, I would suggest checking it with the brake light on with the meter connected to ground (should read between 12.0 and 13.0 volts with the engine off), and then checking the same wire with the brake light off and the meter between that same wire and a positive point on the bike.... and the voltage reading should be the same, between 12.0 and 13.0 volts. If that check shows nearly zero volts, there IS a problem with the ground side of the brake light circuit.
Brian
Hi Brian, I checked it with a voltmeter. I can check it for resistance as well though just to be sure, if its that sensitive. I have used the negative from the accessory wire for the n/c connection through the relay.
Cheers,
Mark
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I replied to this post but put the response in the new thread "Rostra cruise control problems and troubleshooting" so in the future, other people will find it more easily.
This is a link to that thread and post: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19268.msg238005#msg238005 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19268.msg238005#msg238005)
Brian
Hi Brian, I checked it with a voltmeter. I can check it for resistance as well though just to be sure, if its that sensitive. I have used the negative from the accessory wire for the n/c connection through the relay.
Cheers,
Mark
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Well break open the scrumpy and Cornish pasties...... Finally success - big thanks to Brian and everyone else who chipped in with ideas. After Brian mentioned the resistance to ground I checked the connections again, but this time I stripped back the Negative just before it went into the Rostra unit. I first checked it with the volt meter and there was 0.01v difference between true negative and the negative going to the Rostra. Just above this is a factory Rostra splice. I cut this out and soldered a new connection. Tested it and all works, thanks everyone!
I've only really tested the unit for a few miles down the motorway and although good, it seems a little agricultural, and surges at lower speeds. I have a few millimetres of play in the cable when its at rest. Will I need to change the dip switches slightly or is this normal on this unit?
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I'm getting ready to buy one of these CCs and these threads all hold my attention. I'm no stranger to a soldering iron and shrink tubing but I'm still apprehensive about all the bodywork. I should just go for it, there's certainly plenty of help here if I get jammed up.
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The bodywork is the least of your worries... :rotflmao:
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That's the spirit
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The Rostra is not very well setup for high power / low weight vehicles, such as a C-14. Remember, this device was made for autos with a much lower power- to- weight ratio. This is the cause of the surging. You can minimize it by using the highest possible gear for a given speed, this in effect reduces the power- to- weight ratio on the bike and is fairly effective. The CC will work down to 25 MPH but either 5th or 6th gear must be used to 'tame' the engine's output. If you use a lower gear, the bike will surge. At this point I will point out that I will not debate the idea that this is 'lugging' the engine or in some way bad for the bike, I am merely pointing out that it is what is required to use the Rostra on a fairly powerful motorcycle at very low loads (low speeds). Even at fairly high speeds of 50 MPH and higher, the system will oscillate (surge) if very lightly loaded, such as going down a long grade for example. Your Rostra is not defective or not working right, it is just a limitation of this use.
Other DIP switch settings may well work better; they are reasonably well documented in the instructions although badly miss- labeled as to what they are. Still, the basic ability in there in the Rostra instruction booklet and I would encourage you to tinker around with it; you may find a setting(s) that works better and you will absolutely not cause any harm to the CC or the motorcycle by changing the "engine size" or "gain", switches 7,8, and 9 and switches 1 and 2 respectively. The cruise control will respond differently depending on these settings and may get somewhat abrupt and harsh but not harmful. Do not change other DIP switches; they are required to be set where they are in the tutorial (other than switch 11) and should not be changed for use on the C-14. Let us know if you find a setting(s) you fine works better for you.
Brian
Well break open the scrumpy and Cornish pasties...... Finally success - big thanks to Brian and everyone else who chipped in with ideas. After Brian mentioned the resistance to ground I checked the connections again, but this time I stripped back the Negative just before it went into the Rostra unit. I first checked it with the volt meter and there was 0.01v difference between true negative and the negative going to the Rostra. Just above this is a factory Rostra splice. I cut this out and soldered a new connection. Tested it and all works, thanks everyone!
I've only really tested the unit for a few miles down the motorway and although good, it seems a little agricultural, and surges at lower speeds. I have a few millimetres of play in the cable when its at rest. Will I need to change the dip switches slightly or is this normal on this unit?
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Brian, you know that I am one that pays attention to details, and now you have me concerned that I have chosen the wrong path of repair. Here comes another sleepless night worrying.
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Brian, you know that I am one that pays attention to details, and now you have me concerned that I have chosen the wrong path of repair. Here comes another sleepless night worrying.
You're probably good girl, although Brian could be right about the solder causing the balls to bind in the brass connector. I think the ball chain is the way to go for the linkage, because it seems it would be less likely catch on anything, and even if it did the return throttle cable and your wrist are robust enough to overpower it and force the return (certainly robust enough to over power {dare I say it?} any binding balls). If the cable that Brian prefers were to hang up on something I think it would be more difficult to overpower. However if you ever go back in there, I'd put the tubing over the brass thingy like like Brian mentioned.
...and now for something completely different...(easy max') ...and yet related...
I thought I had a problem with my linkage hanging up a couple of times. When I came to a stop my idle was around 2100-2200 rpm and even with a helper on the other side of the bike I wasn't able to correct it by shaking rocking the bike left and right with the throttle wide open (ignition off). We continued on and I used the CC for about another hundred miles and when we arrived at the hotel all was normal. This happened a couple of more times later on that trip and I was just about to remove the plastic when it occurred to me what was causing it and I was able to recreate it. I had powered off the cruise control while it was engaged by hitting the off switch instead of tapping the brake or clutch lever to disengage it first. Apparently if powered off in this manner, my actuator stays where it was instead of returning to the home or idle position. Anybody else experience this? Needless to say I don't do that anymore.
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Now that is really interesting.... especially since it should not happen.
There are two parts to the Rostra actuator, one is a linear drive, which is what actually provides the 'pull' that opens the throttle. As it is screw based (Easy Bosy!), it cannot be driven externally, meaning it cannot be moved to a new place no matter how much pressure is applied externally. If the unit was at, say, 1/4 open throttle and all power to the actuator was lost, you would not be able to overcome it by twisting the throttle even if you used a pipe wrench. So there is a second device in-line with the drive, a magnetic coupling. When power is cut, the magnetic coupling disengages and the throttle is again free to move and unaffected by the Rostra actuator.
It sounds like you screw drive is shutting down BUT the magnetic coupling is not, which is a very dangerous thing to happen. I believe that would be a defective actuator to cause that as the magnetic control of power is internal to the actuator, not external. You may want to investigate that a little bit more. There is no condition where you should be able to shut down the Rostra as a cruise control and yet leave the magnet coupling active that I am aware of or could imagine.
Brian
<snip>
...and now for something completely different...(easy max') ...and yet related...
I thought I had a problem with my linkage hanging up a couple of times. When I came to a stop my idle was around 2100-2200 rpm and even with a helper on the other side of the bike I wasn't able to correct it by shaking rocking the bike left and right with the throttle wide open (ignition off). We continued on and I used the CC for about another hundred miles and when we arrived at the hotel all was normal. This happened a couple of more times later on that trip and I was just about to remove the plastic when it occurred to me what was causing it and I was able to recreate it. I had powered off the cruise control while it was engaged by hitting the off switch instead of tapping the brake or clutch lever to disengage it first. Apparently if powered off in this manner, my actuator stays where it was instead of returning to the home or idle position. Anybody else experience this? Needless to say I don't do that anymore.
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Well, I do not know that I would lose sleep over it and I do not think it is by any means likely to bind. I was merely mentioning it because I think perhaps a better way to go is to leave the ball coupling clean and just slip a plastic tube over it to retain the balls and prevent the chain from possibly coming apart or binding. More for future installers than yours, which is already done. But hey, if it really does bother you, change the coupling and use a snug fitting piece of tubing and I promise it will last forever and never bind. :-)
There are several places in that paragraph above that require an 'Easy Boys' so I am just putting it here as a blanket disclaimer.
Brian
Brian, you know that I am one that pays attention to details, and now you have me concerned that I have chosen the wrong path of repair. Here comes another sleepless night worrying.
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After more tests today at 50 and 70 mph I'm a happy chap. Bike holds steady at both speeds using Brian's dip switch settings. As Brian mentioned, it works at its best and is nice and smooth in top gear. Time to tidy everything up now and put the bike together at last!
Thanks again
Mark
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Don't be a stranger...
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Time to tidy everything up now..
Oh sure, just be different than the rest of us.
sailor_chic has started something here for sure. >:(
I just can't decide if it's a good thing or not. :-\ ..... :)
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Oh sure, just be different than the rest of us.
sailor_chic has started something here for sure. >:(
I just can't decide if it's a good thing or not. :-\ ..... :)
Err I've just looked at sailor chic's install and what a lovely professional job that is, well done! Mine will be held up with a few cable ties and hidden by the plastics :-[
Might even treat the bike to one of its bi annual washes :'( :-[ ::)
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Don't be a stranger...
I won't Jim. Gradually been reading through the various posts and subjects, its good to see what experiences others have had with their bike and accessories. :)
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P.S ...... what's the pink hairband for on Sailor Chic's Rostra install ...... Is that another mod that I don't know about? :-*
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Possibly. Why don't you give that one a try?
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Thanks for the kind words about my install. I'm certainly glad that I have set a standard.
Please don't over think the hairband, it's exactly what it's intended for, my hair. It just happened to be on the grip when I took the picture.
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Pulling up an old thread because it best describes the problem i am currently having.
Cruise worked fine for a year then one trip it stopped working, it will not engage. I've checked cleaned and redone all the grounds, swapped out brake relay with a new one, switched controllers, got the with the engage light( still need to wire in the relay for it). I've opened the control box and tested that all the inputs are correct.
doing the ground test and mentioned. tested with positive on purple wire side of the relay and ground on used ground got 12.4v with brakes engaged. brakes disengaged, positive on battery and ground on purple wire side i get 12.6v
red; 12+v when switched on
purple; grounded then 12+v when brakes pulled
black; ground
yellow;12+v switched w/ resume
brown; 12+v power
gray; vvs 5v pulse
dark green; 12+v switched w/ set
blue; not used
light green; clutch switch
orange; not used
any help would be great!! Im on day 5 of trying to get this figured out.
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I've opened the control box and tested that all the inputs are correct. Does that mean you checked the red LED under the rubber cap as per Rostra book?
If the control pad hasn't been protected from rain that can kill it.
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Red led comes on when the unit is powered on. Control pad is new, replaced the first one as an attempt to fix my issue.
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Does the red LED behave exactly as described in the t/shooting procedure? Sorry - can't be of more help. Perhaps the unit has failed, but I've not heard of such before.
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System will not enter diagnostic mode. Red light comes on with power and does not change with the pressing of set or resume button. Going to wire in the engaged light relay tonight and triple check that the mechanical connections are all still good.
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System will not enter diagnostic mode. That certainly makes it difficult. Good luck and report back with findings.