Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: marku8a on July 11, 2011, 09:21:23 PM
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It's a 2009 with 1300 miles. The starter motor turns the engine over but the engine does not light up. Things I tried...
Yes it has gas!
Recharged the battery and checked the voltage (no load)
The starter turns at what sounds like a normal speed
Checked all fuses in fuse boxes 1,2 & 3 with a continuity tester
The funny thing is that it has never fired right up right away when cold. I don't mean cold cold. I am in southern California. Other EFI bikes I have owned or ridden have fired up with a short press (2-5 seconds) of the starter button. Not this one.
Any recommendations for other troubleshooting? I am about ready to give up and take it to the dealer. That's another question, how do you get your dead bike to a shop to be repaired? I have always done my own work or managed to limp to help.
Mark
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Do you have an aftermarket tuner installed on it?
If so you might check your connections and pay special attention to your ground.
Could it be bad fuel? When was the last time you rode your 2009 with 1300 miles?
If not then you would be better off to have a friend lend you trailer to take it to the dealer.
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Mark,
When you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump activate for a few seconds?
If not then you have a fuel pump, fuse, or safety circuit issue.
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Battery cables tight on the terminals?
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We've had a couple of bikes come through here with cold start issues. Unfortunately, I don't remember what the outcomes were. Starting issues with this bike are totally abnormal. If it's turning over at normal speed then the battery should be ok but it doesn't have to go down much to not start and still crank. They are totally dependent on the correct voltage. You might try seeing if there are any codes showing up. Hold the upper and lower buttons on the dash display for more than two seconds. If there is a code it will come up. If there aren't any codes it could be bad gas. You may also want to make sure the battery is charged fully as well.
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When my battery started going south, the starter would turn what sounded fast enough to start the bike, but it wouldn't start. A new battery solved the problem. It might be worth taking your battery off and having it tested.
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This might sound strange...but make sure the RED SWITCH is in the proper position on your right handlebar. ::)
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This might sound strange...but make sure the RED SWITCH is in the proper position on your right handlebar. ::)
Pretty sure the motor wouldn't turn over if that was the case. ::)
But maybe my "RED SWITCH" is just weird like that.
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Pretty sure the motor wouldn't turn over if that was the case. ::)
But maybe my "RED SWITCH" is just weird like that.
Lol I forgot this bike has a sensor for that. ::)
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Lol I forgot this bike has a sensor for that. ::)
You lost me.
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You lost me.
My other 7 bikes would actually allow the user to crank the engine while the engine "kill switch" is in the off position. This was advantagious when the engine became "flooded" with fuel and you could open the throttle all the way and turn the engine a few times to "clean" the excess fuel. I forgot the C14 doesn't allow this...but I never really use the off position on the switch anyway.
:deadhorse:
FWIW I had this issue last week and disconnecting the wiring harness from the PCV and re-connecting the stock ones made it start right up.
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That's what happened when my PC V took a dump.
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Me too! But mine ran just long enough to get me about a mile down the road! It's not fun pushing this monster! ;D
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FWIW I had this issue last week and disconnecting the wiring harness from the PCV and re-connecting the stock ones made it start right up.
:popcorn:
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With all the threads reporting PCs crapping out, I think I'll be skipping this farkle.
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A C-14 will not crank with the kill switch set to 'OFF'. Nor will any other Japanese bike I've seen but of course I have not seen them all.... Allowing the engine to crank with the kill switch set to off is sort of like playing 'stump the dummy' I think. ;)
Brian
My other 7 bikes would actually allow the user to crank the engine while the engine "kill switch" is in the off position. This was advantagious when the engine became "flooded" with fuel and you could open the throttle all the way and turn the engine a few times to "clean" the excess fuel. I forgot the C14 doesn't allow this...but I never really use the off position on the switch anyway.
:deadhorse:
FWIW I had this issue last week and disconnecting the wiring harness from the PCV and re-connecting the stock ones made it start right up.
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Do you have an aftermarket tuner installed on it?
If so you might check your connections and pay special attention to your ground.
Could it be bad fuel? When was the last time you rode your 2009 with 1300 miles?
If not then you would be better off to have a friend lend you trailer to take it to the dealer.
No Tuner. Checked ground. Rode last weekend. Found a "Bike tow service" Going to cost about $80.
Mark,
When you turn the key on do you hear the fuel pump activate for a few seconds?
If not then you have a fuel pump, fuse, or safety circuit issue.
Yes I hear the pump.
Battery cables tight on the terminals?
Yes. I removed and installed the battery to charge it.
You might try seeing if there are any codes showing up. Hold the upper and lower buttons on the dash display for more than two seconds. If there is a code it will come up.
That's a new one for me. I just tried it. No codes. It just enters the setup menu.
When my battery started going south, the starter would turn what sounded fast enough to start the bike, but it wouldn't start. A new battery solved the problem. It might be worth taking your battery off and having it tested.
I did experience this on another vehicle. I will give that a shot.
That's what happened when my PC V took a dump.
No PC installed.... yet!!!
I am going to have the battery load tested. If that checks out ok, its off to the dealer for repair. I asked if Kawa would pick up the $80 for the transport. I was told no. If its a warranty repair I think I will challenge that.
Thanks for all the recommendations! You guys are great!!
Mark
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If you have AAA they should cover the haul cost. Your insurance may also. If they say it was not a roadside haul, push it out to the street.
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Are you getting any error at all on the display? It almost sounds like a cam sensor is bad... but you'd think you'd fire an error code for that.
JJ
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A C-14 will not crank with the kill switch set to 'OFF'. Nor will any other Japanese bike I've seen but of course I have not seen them all.... Allowing the engine to crank with the kill switch set to off is sort of like playing 'stump the dummy' I think. ;)
Brian
Either you haven't been riding as long as I thought or your memory is starting to fade. I'm guessing the "no cranking with the kill switch off" took place about the same time as the sidestand ignition lock. My early '80's Hondas have neither of those features.
As to PC problems, there have been more reported strandings caused by Power Commanders than by KiPass, but fortunately the PC failures do not seem to provoke the vitriol.
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AAA will not touch a motorcycle (tow, jump, anything at all) is the member has the standard AAA membership. I understand there is a rider that is available to go with an AAA membership but it is for RV's or something similarly strange (buying an RV rider to cover a motorcycle is odd to me).
Brian
If you have AAA they should cover the haul cost. Your insurance may also. If they say it was not a roadside haul, push it out to the street.
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I have no idea how long you think I have been riding a motorcycle. I don't really want to guess either....
I have owned and ridden quite a few bikes without a side stand interlock but have never seen a Japanese bike that will crank but not have spark when the kill switch is in the 'OFF' position. As I said though, I have not seen / ridden / worked on / seen demonstrated / every Japanese bike ever made.
Now about mentioning the <k-word>, I am rather surprised you did that. You are the first one to do so in this thread and you know how it tends to attract.... er, that undesirable element. So if that happens, it is on your head this time.
::) ;D :P
Brian
Either you haven't been riding as long as I thought or your memory is starting to fade. I'm guessing the "no cranking with the kill switch off" took place about the same time as the sidestand ignition lock. My early '80's Hondas have neither of those features.
As to PC problems, there have been more reported strandings caused by Power Commanders than by KiPass, but fortunately the PC failures do not seem to provoke the vitriol.
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If you have AAA they should cover the haul cost. Your insurance may also. If they say it was not a roadside haul, push it out to the street.
You know, I didn't think of that. Good idea!
Are you getting any error at all on the display? It almost sounds like a cam sensor is bad... but you'd think you'd fire an error code for that.
No Error displayed.
AAA will not touch a motorcycle (tow, jump, anything at all) is the member has the standard AAA membership. I understand there is a rider that is available to go with an AAA membership but it is for RV's or something similarly strange (buying an RV rider to cover a motorcycle is odd to me).
You are correct sir. I heard the same. I am AAA a member and called today. They will cover motorcycles with a MC/RV addition to the standard membership. The cost is $37 in addition to the standard membership. This is good for a pickup and 7 miles of transport. The next level up is $105 (auto and MC) and good for 100 miles. I was skeptical about what they use for transport so I called the local AAA tow company. They use a flatbed. Their drivers are trained to load bikes. They guy said "We do it all the time. Not to worry". I would assume that they know what they are doing since AAA uses them.
I did manage to have AAA pick me up on my bicycle once, no kidding. I had a blowout (tire shot I carry spare tubes) and was 5 miles away from help in either direction. So I grab my cell phone and...A story for another thread!
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I have no idea how long you think I have been riding a motorcycle. I don't really want to guess either....
I have owned and ridden quite a few bikes without a side stand interlock but have never seen a Japanese bike that will crank but not have spark when the kill switch is in the 'OFF' position. As I said though, I have not seen / ridden / worked on / seen demonstrated / every Japanese bike ever made.
Now about mentioning the <k-word>, I am rather surprised you did that. You are the first one to do so in this thread and you know how it tends to attract.... er, that undesirable element. So if that happens, it is on your head this time.
::) ;D :P
Brian
I figured you'd been riding for about 30 years.
As you wish. It just surprises me that you never saw a 4 cylinder Gold Wing. Or a CX/GL v-twin. Or a sohc CB750. Or a dohc CB750. Or CB550. Or any Honda made prior to 1984. Or perhaps any later Honda - I'm pretty sure my Nighthawk S would spin the starter with the kill switch off - maybe ask Dan Bergman, as he still has one. All my old bikes are/were Hondas, so IDK what the other mfgs did.
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Ah, see that is where things begin to go wrong: I have seen the original 4 cylinder Gold Wings, both the 1000 and 1100's. Back when they were naked bikes or had Windjammers on them. And I very well remember the original 750 / fours, and even had the treat of riding an original K1 many years ago. Now that said, two things come up- I have never owned a Honda in my life (it just never worked out that way, no other reason) and two, I would not have tinkered with seeing if the kill switch prevented the starter turning on a bike I was offered to ride, or a bike I happen to be looking over, etc.
Early Kawasakis, Suzukis and Yamahas would not crank with the kill switch in the off position if memory serves. Again, it sounds like the Honda might have been a little unusual back in the early days?
40 years of street riding (with breaks here and there), and I was dirt riding at 11 years old although I stopped doing that when I started with road bikes (I thought dirt riding was more dangerous and street riding was safer).
Brian
I figured you'd been riding for about 30 years.
As you wish. It just surprises me that you never saw a 4 cylinder Gold Wing. Or a CX/GL v-twin. Or a sohc CB750. Or a dohc CB750. Or CB550. Or any Honda made prior to 1984. Or perhaps any later Honda - I'm pretty sure my Nighthawk S would spin the starter with the kill switch off - maybe ask Dan Bergman, as he still has one. All my old bikes are/were Hondas, so IDK what the other mfgs did.
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it will crank and not fire if a cam location sensor is not working correctly, or diconnected...just saying.
oh, AMA's MoTow+ covers all vehicals in the family for the same price as your "add on rider plan" with AAA, why would anyone pay AAA for the services at the inflated price they have????
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To locate the basic .. (not mechanical engine) .. fault I often find the following may help;
1. Put my hand near the high voltage spark plug leads and see if I get shocked when I crank the motor. *if you have some way of doing a spark gap test if the spark is blue your fine if yellow orange you are not okay*
2. If I have a spark .. I use a small spray of starter fluid then crack the motor .. remove air filter before you spray .. also if I think bad gas I add some Sea Foam and rock the bike back and forth for 10 or so times.
NOTE: Both of the above can get you and/or others including connie hurt, so be careful or get someone else to do the dirty work
I often will crack the engine and check the exhaust pipe to see if I can smell gas fumes .. if I smell fumes I assume the fuel system is okay and something is up with either the electrical system (ignition) or compression.
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As to PC problems, there have been more reported strandings caused by Power Commanders than by KiPass, but fortunately the PC failures do not seem to provoke the vitriol.
I think that's because Capt'n Bob didn't get stranded by a PC, at least that I know of. I'm positive he will correct me if I'm wrong. 8)
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I think that's because Capt'n Bob didn't get stranded by a PC, at least that I know of. I'm positive he will correct me if I'm wrong. 8)
Me too! But mine ran just long enough to get me about a mile down the road! It's not fun pushing this monster! ;D
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As to PC problems, there have been more reported strandings caused by Power Commanders than by KiPass, but fortunately the PC failures do not seem to provoke the vitriol.
:rotflmao:
Although there have been a quite a few power commander failures on the C14's. It is not even close to people who have had KIPASS problems. With all do respect Clyde. Your so full of **** it's coming out your ears! How can you even say that with a straight face! Show me your numbers Clyde. Document or retract! After putting up with your BS in the past. I sat here for an hour one day and did a quick search (kipass failures) of people who had had KIPASS problems. Some just a short stranding until they got it working again others on the trailer to the dealer. I quoted about 40 people before I stopped posting (there were more there too!). So as you have said in the past document or retract! Too bad you won't see this since I'm sure you have me blocked! ::)
There now you have some vitriol. Of course you tend to bring it on yourself! But to be fair, so do I!
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Nice job Clyde! Now you have Godzilla awake and stomping and smashing his way through the downtown forum. >:( Sure, we can call out the army, navy and air force but like in the movie, it won't do any good- he'll just keep on destroying everything in his path with his atomic breath. The only thing that can save us is the Dr. Serizawa's Oxygen Destroyer!
Godzilla is a combination of two Japanese words: Gorira, meaning 'KiPass', and Kurija, meaning 'hater'.
KiPass- the gift that keeps on giving.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D and.... chuckle.
Brian
Although there have been a quite a few power commander failures on the C14's. It is not even close to people who have had KIPASS problems. With all do respect Clyde. Your so full of crap it's coming out your ears! How can you even say that with a straight face! Show me your numbers Clyde. Document or retract! After putting up with your BS in the past. I sat here for an hour one day and did a quick search (kipass failures) of people who had had KIPASS problems. Some just a short stranding until they got it working again others on the trailer to the dealer. I quoted about 40 people before I stopped posting. So as you have said in the past document or retract! Too bad you won't see this since I'm sure you have me blocked! ::)
There now you have some vitriol. Of course you tend to bring it on yourself! But to be fair, so do I!
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:rotflmao:
Although there have been a quite a few power commander failures on the C14's. It is not even close to people who have had KIPASS problems. With all do respect Clyde. Your so full of **** it's coming out your ears! How can you even say that with a straight face! Show me your numbers Clyde. Document or retract! After putting up with your BS in the past. I sat here for an hour one day and did a quick search (kipass failures) of people who had had KIPASS problems. Some just a short stranding until they got it working again others on the trailer to the dealer. I quoted about 40 people before I stopped posting (there were more there too!). So as you have said in the past document or retract! Too bad you won't see this since I'm sure you have me blocked! ::)
There now you have some vitriol. Of course you tend to bring it on yourself! But to be fair, so do I!
Bob, as much as I would like to agree with you on this subject I think Clyde is right. Based on anecdotal evidence, which isn't scientific at all, and me being here for quite a bit, it seems to me that I have seen more PC 'issues' than KIPASS problems. Bad connections, total failures, weird stuff happening, etc...
I'll stick with KIPASS, thank you very much......
I know how this stuff affects you and I appreciate your comments but let's not start with the name calling...
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Nice job Clyde! Now you have Godzilla awake and stomping and smashing his way through the downtown forum. >:( Sure, we can call out the army, navy, moderators, and air force but like in the movie, it won't do any good- he'll just keep on destroying everything in his path with his atomic breath. The only thing that can save us is the Dr. Serizawa's Oxygen Destroyer!
Godzilla is a combination of two Japanese words: Gorira, meaning 'KiPass', and Kurija, meaning 'hater'.
KiPass- the gift that keeps on giving.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D and.... chuckle.
Brian
Fixed it for you....
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I have no idea how long you think I have been riding a motorcycle. I don't really want to guess either....
I have owned and ridden quite a few bikes without a side stand interlock but have never seen a Japanese bike that will crank but not have spark when the kill switch is in the 'OFF' position. As I said though, I have not seen / ridden / worked on / seen demonstrated / every Japanese bike ever made.
Now about mentioning the <k-word>, I am rather surprised you did that. You are the first one to do so in this thread and you know how it tends to attract.... er, that undesirable element. So if that happens, it is on your head this time.
::) ;D :P
Brian
That's been a running joke with motorcycle types for years. Flip the kill kill and watch the guy try to figure out why it won't start. In fact while my C14 won't do it, my 2007 Suzuki M50 did. Trust me, I felt like a dipstick sitting there at the gas station trying to figure out why is suddenly wouldn't start. And, in fact, this is the first bike I've have that the kill switch prevents the starter from turning over. So, probably just a funny set of circumstances is all....but maybe I just have been riding the cheap models? :)
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:popcorn: never a dull moment here!
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Yep...
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Nice job Clyde! Now you have Godzilla awake and stomping and smashing his way through the downtown forum. >:( Sure, we can call out the army, navy and air force but like in the movie, it won't do any good- he'll just keep on destroying everything in his path with his atomic breath. The only thing that can save us is the Dr. Serizawa's Oxygen Destroyer!
Godzilla is a combination of two Japanese words: Gorira, meaning 'KiPass', and Kurija, meaning 'hater'.
KiPass- the gift that keeps on giving.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D and.... chuckle.
Brian
:rotflmao:
Nice to have you back Brian.
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Hey, good to be back. But I could not have done it without my lovely assistants, Cap'n Bob and LT1 (Clyde). Let's give a big hand to these fine folks. And I think in the end we owe it all to KiPass, master of ignitions and emotional peaks.
;D
Brian
:rotflmao:
Nice to have you back Brian.
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Nice job Clyde! Now you have Godzilla awake and stomping and smashing his way through the downtown forum. >:( Sure, we can call out the army, navy and air force but like in the movie, it won't do any good- he'll just keep on destroying everything in his path with his atomic breath. The only thing that can save us is the Dr. Serizawa's Oxygen Destroyer!
Godzilla is a combination of two Japanese words: Gorira, meaning 'KiPass', and Kurija, meaning 'hater'.
KiPass- the gift that keeps on giving.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D and.... chuckle.
Brian
Actually, I think you mistake Mothra for Godzilla. If I were wanting to thoroughly hijack the thread, I would mention how well KiPass and Comagination headlight monitors work together.
Then the spittle would start flying. Here, kitty, kitty.
What's even better, is that I have learned how to activate the "Ignore" function, both personally and on the forum. 8)
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Typical Clyde! When someone else makes a statement that he does not belive, he makes brutally direct and normally nasty comments to them. In the past, I said there were a lot of KIPASS failures. Your comments Clyde, were "document or retract". And then you used some corn ball phrase like "I call Bull-hockey on you"!
So when you ask Clyde to provide numbers to prove his own statement with his own words, "document or retract". You get I hit the ignore button! The problem with you Clyde is that you love to push your holier than thou attitude on others. Yet the same rules don't apply to you! You claim to be a man of faith, yet you act you act in untruths and deceptions!
So you made a statement something to the effect, that there have been more power commander failures than KIPASS. I won't be so delicate since you don't want to respond. I call bull $h!t on you Clyde. I documented about 40 KIPASS failures and could have kept going. So now I ask the same of you. As you have said, "document or retract"! I know, you have me on the ignore button. It wouldn't matter because I seriously doubt you would find even close to that many actual C14 power commander failures. ;)
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Ok, this is going nowhere but downhill....
This thread has been continued here:
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2671.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2671.0)