Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: rcannon409 on October 02, 2011, 05:26:12 PM
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I spent thru and fri night in the local Canyon. 15 miles or perfect road, two lane, and reasonable safety. Big Cottonwood, they call it. Almost, no Ballast. I had to leave the bags on, but they had 15 lbs each in them. I went to stiffer settings on suspension from a British mag and was very happy with them. Great control.
So, I'm doing my thing when a 2011 Ninja 1000, a red one, shows up in the mirror. No prob, I'll let him by. So I do. I follow for a few minutes, then think...its on. I passed him on a straight and he was not able to catch me in the next 12 miles.
I know this bike is a tourer...really, look at it. Bags, cartoon size weight, and fearing. However, the bike does not know what it is and handled the canyon as well as I cared to.
I may add a Penske shock later as I feel the stock shock is the weak link. BUT, its not that weak. I have 40 years riding experience, but its RIDING experience. Not racing, canyon carving, or such. Lots of offroad miles in there.
To say I'm thrilled with the bike is an understatement. I'm running pr2 tires, pcv, and a leo vince slip on. Stock otherwise. The pcv and fuel moto map help in the twisties due to vastly improved low end performance, torque and smoothness.
My gas mileage dropped to 28 mpg ...lol
Anyway, if you're worried abotu this 700 lb beast dealing with canyons, throw away the spec sheet, forget abotu 700 lbs, and do it. The bike will do it.
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I beg to differ.
Though the C-14 handles well in the twisties, it can not hang with a liter bike which is piloted by someone with medium skill level.
And just wave good bye to an experienced sport-biker.
Although the C-14 has the power to hang with liter bikes in the straights, there is no way to get the beast through the turns.
Even hanging off the seat can't get the bike over far enough to hold speed through the turn to keep the lead bike in site.
Ask me how I know?
YouTube - RideWNC
RideWNC Fall Fest Ride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTfh2-7ARwc#ws)
I just posted a video of my group ride from Saturday. This was a group of visitors who I guided through the mountains.
We logged about 250 miles on Saturday. A ZX14 was the only bike in our group giving me a challange.
All of them were medium skilled riders with track time. All were mid-forties with ten or more years riding.
I only have thirty years under my belt I have not been on a track since 1997...
And if you think your bike is fast, get on a tight road with a Motar... I bet you don't see his tail light for very long.
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No, it isn't gonna blitz through the corners like a SS bike, but it does pretty damn well. The quick L/R transitions are where I feel the weight the most.
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Actually, there's nothing to differ about since what happened is reality. The Ninja 1000 is not to be confused a zx 10r.
I'm talking about this bike. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=ninja+1000&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1366&bih=608&tbm=isch&tbnid=PCH5GswP3YfVsM:&imgrefurl=http://sportsheavybikes.blogspot.com/2011/07/kawasaki-ninja-1000.html&docid=-YuMpLYdOi_4HM&w=623&h=415&ei=ahSJTvztIrDSiAL62oDMDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=636&vpy=316&dur=580&hovh=85&hovw=128&tx=135&ty=82&page=1&tbnh=85&tbnw=128&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0 (http://www.google.com/imgres?q=ninja+1000&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1366&bih=608&tbm=isch&tbnid=PCH5GswP3YfVsM:&imgrefurl=http://sportsheavybikes.blogspot.com/2011/07/kawasaki-ninja-1000.html&docid=-YuMpLYdOi_4HM&w=623&h=415&ei=ahSJTvztIrDSiAL62oDMDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=636&vpy=316&dur=580&hovh=85&hovw=128&tx=135&ty=82&page=1&tbnh=85&tbnw=128&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0)
Obviously, the c 14 wont stick with a supersporrt. BUT, Kawasaki positioned that ninja 1000 as an all around bike. Sort of a standard for the 2000's, leaning towards the sporting side. The c 14 is more than a match for it. No idea how good the other rider is/was. I can assure you my abilities are nothing to write home about.
As far as sm's...yes, true. I had a ktm smr for a few years before the sport died. I can confirm the c14 totally sucks on a motorcross track and double jumps. My yz 300 will spank both of them, actually.
My point was not to compare each and every possible motorcycle in one specific set of twisties. I was offering a fun story about one specific night and my shock at how well this bike worked.
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I think what he (MikeRideWNC) was trying to say is that any sport bike, be it a Ninja 1000 or ZX-10r will fairly easily hand the C14 it's tail on a tight, twisty road. The cornering clearance on those bikes are just so much greater that the C14 will be rubbing hard parts long before the sport bikes, trying to keep up. Does this make me want to run out and trade my C14 for a dedicated "canyon carver"....... heck no! I want to ride to those great roads and carry everything I need including my wife if she wants to ride. Most of the bikes the C14 can't keep with would have a hard time finding storage for anything larger than a pack of tic-tics and the rear seat isn't a very good place for a pillion to spend more than 30 minutes. ;)
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rcannon409, right on with the suspension mods.
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It handles amazingly well for it's size and weight! It is a very good tool for carving canyons!
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I rode a buddies Ninja 1000 (he got it for the cycle world thing they had) and was blasting around on it like it was a 600. The weight difference is substantial, and I'd get in trouble on that bike, worse than I already do on the connie.
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I do agree that a 1000 sport machine would do it. I'm not sure the ninja 1000 is the one after what I saw. I THINK Kawasaki stopped short with the bike. Probably a fine machine, btu not quite what it could be. I felt good and bad abotu what happened. I hoped the ninja 1000 woudl eb my next/spare bike, btu now, I'm not so sure.
Also, my c14 did not start that many forest fires as Cycle World said it would.
The British suspension settings were easy to remember. It was for a 2008. The settings were Fork...three lines showing, and 3 out on rebound. Shock...3 clicks out on preload, 1/4 out on rebound. Stiff around town, btu cornering clearance was decent. Improved. Handling, for the conditions I had, was amazing. I've done nothign to my forks except add 15cc of Kayaba s1 fluid to each leg.
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Anyway, if you're worried abotu this 700 lb beast dealing with canyons, throw away the spec sheet, forget abotu 700 lbs, and do it. The bike will do it.
I rode today with the bags off for the first time, I too was surprised at how nimble the C14 handles... It feels lighter/nimbler than my FJR did...But i think big part of it is the shock setup...Looking forward to some curvy road trips very soon !
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I think what he (MikeRideWNC) was trying to say is that any sport bike, be it a Ninja 1000 or ZX-10r will fairly easily hand the C14 it's tail on a tight, twisty road. The cornering clearance on those bikes are just so much greater that the C14 will be rubbing hard parts long before the sport bikes, trying to keep up. Does this make me want to run out and trade my C14 for a dedicated "canyon carver"....... heck no! I want to ride to those great roads and carry everything I need including my wife if she wants to ride. Most of the bikes the C14 can't keep with would have a hard time finding storage for anything larger than a pack of tic-tics and the rear seat isn't a very good place for a pillion to spend more than 30 minutes. ;)
Ditto. This bike provides a lot of FUN on great riding roads along with taking a fair amount of stuff and or passenger. That's the very definition of "sport tourer"
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What I am saying is it is a good bike for what it is, a light weight touring bike. When I ride I choose
the bike for the days needs.
When I want to tour the mountains with a group of friends I take the C-14.
When I am sport-touring with a group, I take the VFR800Fi.
When we are all out going crazy and breaking laws I have a Ducati 848 under me.
My BMW K1200LT could do almost everything the C-14 does with the exception being excelleration.
It was 963 pounds of rolling luxury and it rode like a HUGE sport touer.
I understand the defensive tones which some of you voiced about your C-14.
But let's face it, the C-14 is not a sportbike and it will never do what a sportbike can do. I have tried with and without the luggage.
It needs just two more inches of lean angle and some higher rear sets.
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Mike, you are right. I suppose the c 14 is a light weight touring bike when compared to other touring bikes. Before that trip I figured....700 lbs...lets just stay out of the canyon and ride the sv 650 up there. After it was over, I feel liek the c14 does better in the canyons than the sv would on a long range trip.
Actually, the last big bike I took up there was an 1982 xs 11 Yamaha. It WOULD make the turns, but was anything but fun. The flex of the frame was unreal and you would have to repaint the subframe after every trip there. The paint would flake off from the welds due to flex.
To be fair, the canyon was modified right before the 2002 Olympics. The road was banked the proper direction and slightly widened to make it easy for tour buses to navigate. It was an ideal spot to leave the Connie in 3rd or 4th and let it go. I found the engine in the 14 to be amazing. Truly in a class of its own.
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Did Mr Ninja know you were racing.....most likely not. :nuts:
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I've been doing this stuff for a lot of years, and one thing I know for absolute sure - when it comes to who can hang with who on a public street its all about who has the most balls/lack of concern with what you might encounter on the road. I personally can outride 99% of the folks I come across on the street simply because so many of them are so average. But yesterday was a good example. Four bikes showed up behind me. One of them passed me. I hung with him through a few curves running fairly hard, but honestly I would not have passed him again even though he was on a .........ready for this? A BMW R1200 "adventure" bike with dual purpose tires. Now, I know the Concours could easily out run him, and I'm a pretty good rider and have trophies to back up my bragging. But we were running some blind curves where I was not willing on taking any more risks. In fairness, I was running the same speed he was, but I was not willing on using the extra capabilities of the Concours because of the risks involved.
BTW, I later ran across them in a roadside park. The three that never caught up with us were a MV 1000 (not sure of the designation, but the cooler than **** sport bike), a Ducati 1098 R (yes, R), and the BMW "boxer" full sport version. Pardon me for not looking up all the designations of these bikes. Every one of the bikes could have blown away me and the guy on the Adventure bike - but they didn't.
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After 250,000 miles on Gold Wings the C14 feels like a great canyon carver.
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My track bike is a GSXR 750. I have never tracked the C14 but I could never imagine pushing as fast as the gixxer. On the track.
As a practical matter though, on the road, I can normally eat novice sportbike riders for lunch on the C14 and few experienced sport riders push their bikes hard enough on the road to hand me my ass on the C14. For that matter, I don't push my gixxer any harder on the street than I do the C14.
I suspect that raising the pegs and giving the C14 a couple more inches of lean would be a fairly bad idea due to its weight.
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Extra weight, less flickability (techy term) and braking sufferage. Fully capable bike, just not the same as a full blown sport bike. Equal riders and the '14 loses everytime. Match it up with any other ST and the '14 wins, again, same skills, same sack level. For the whale she is she does remarkably well, no doubt in my mind.
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I've asked in the past and never have received a clear answer. I understand that the states do not mark all equivalent corners the same, but let's take a hypothetical "average" 30mph corner. The 848 was mentioned for crazy, law-breaking speeds. What kind of speed is that? The C14 is obviously of taking the corner over 30mph w/o effort, so what is meant.
As long as we are talking hypothetical, I would think that a C14 could take the corner at 60mph w/o stressing, and 75 w/some concentration, but w/o dragging anything, at least w/ peg feelers removed. So what are the theoretical cornering speeds of the C14, VFR and 848/SS class bikes? 2.5x, 3.0x, 3.5x, 4.0x the posted speeds? I don't consider myself a fast or skilled rider, but it seems like people (squids) manage to crash at speeds lower that what I ride at, and others on much "lesser" bikes are able to run much faster than I care to, or am able to.
Any takers on the question? Just hypothetical. Closed course. Not confessing anything.
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She's a damn fine dance partner for big girl! :D
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I've asked in the past and never have received a clear answer. I understand that the states do not mark all equivalent corners the same, but let's take a hypothetical "average" 30mph corner. The 848 was mentioned for crazy, law-breaking speeds. What kind of speed is that? The C14 is obviously of taking the corner over 30mph w/o effort, so what is meant.
As long as we are talking hypothetical, I would think that a C14 could take the corner at 60mph w/o stressing, and 75 w/some concentration, but w/o dragging anything, at least w/ peg feelers removed. So what are the theoretical cornering speeds of the C14, VFR and 848/SS class bikes? 2.5x, 3.0x, 3.5x, 4.0x the posted speeds? I don't consider myself a fast or skilled rider, but it seems like people (squids) manage to crash at speeds lower that what I ride at, and others on much "lesser" bikes are able to run much faster than I care to, or am able to.
Any takers on the question? Just hypothetical. Closed course. Not confessing anything.
In my humble opinion, I imagine that my "seat governor" would probably limit me (with my BS-021 tires) to about 1.5x on the lower speed curves and about 1.8x on this higher marked curves. It's probably some sort of a sliding scale that culminates in about 2.3x on the straights. Of course, I have no real world street experience to verify those numbers. ::)
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I learned how to ride in the early 80's in central FL... (Brooksville - There are curves in FL)
A posted 35- 45MPH curve is easily doubled and most turns in FL you can triple the posted speed.
Here in Western NC most curves are not posted unless really bad.
Example which most of you who have visited here know, is the 10mph right turn on 28 heading west towards the Deal's Gap store.
On the C-14 it can be taken at 35-40mph on an 848 it can be done at 60mph without dragging a knee.
The speed limit on 28 from Franklin to Deal's Gap is 55mph. There are places where it is impossible to hold 55mph and there are no signs.
Much like Deal's Gap, some places you can not hold 30mph and that road used to be 55mph.
As far as posted speed, I think all states are way off on their posted safe speed.
But, remember that the posted safe speeds are set for vehicles like large trucks.
A yellow sign is a warning, a white sign is the speed limit. So you can take a 35mph turn at 55mph without it being illegal.
It would be nice if more drivers and riders knew this.
One problem here is the NC State speed limit is 55 unless otherwise posted.
So a Harley rider sees a yellow sign with 35 on it leading up to a curve, then they ride 35mph for the entire stretch of the road.
It is really bad when they have 6-10 pirate ships all wobbling down the yellow line at 35mph... And no passing zone is available... :-X
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i think corner speed postings are better in NC then here in SC. theres a lot of 25mph corners that should be marked 45mph, its crazy.
as far as the C14 doing its thing, I agree with the peg height and lean angle not being on par with sport bikes. but like someone else said I don't think the C14 should lean over any more then it does. with its weight you would need crazy glue on the tires leaned over any further!
but its an awesome bike and the Balls/Sac factor does come into play as to who hands out the a$$ whippin', I've been handed whippin's alot. I've also had people tell me I was a crazy a-hole and they would never ride with me again.
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Thanks for the feedback. I suppose that at some point there were some engineering calculations on the posted speeds, but political and/or practical considerations changed a lot of them. After a bunch of people ran off the road at one corner near where I used to live, the yellow sign dropped about 20mph and an additional warning sign was added.
In AZ, the signs seem, for the most part, fairly conservative. Most roadworthy vehicles can corner at the posted speeds in dry & clear conditions w/o a problem. But I heard about a bike that was running up Mt Lemmon at about 2.0-2.5x the posted speeds, and was caught by a late-model Camaro. So I was curious. Thanks again.
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Extra weight, less flickability (techy term) and braking sufferage. Fully capable bike, just not the same as a full blown sport bike. Equal riders and the '14 loses everytime. Match it up with any other ST and the '14 wins, again, same skills, same sack level. For the whale she is she does remarkably well, no doubt in my mind.
I owned a R1 and a 600RR at the same time I've owned the Connie. Its not realistic to think the Connie can perform as well with same rider in the turns
And the 109 HP 600RR wasted my 130HP C14 in the straight line drag racing too, as the 600RR is light as a feather.
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I shot this video this morning.
This single 10mph curve crashes more pirate ships, trikes and cars than any other curve.
It has claimed more lives than Deal's Gap.
I ran the curve this morning just above 30mph on the speedo.
It is blind either direction. Far too many people do not heed the warnings.
The state posted warning 1/4 mile before the turn and the locals painted SLO on the pavement.
But yet people try their best to go as fast as they can through the turn.
28 Bad Curve (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9cAMKb6rew#ws)
Here is the rear view
28 Bad Curve Rear View (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozt_SiznuVs#ws)
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I owned a R1 and a 600RR at the same time I've owned the Connie. Its not realistic to think the Connie can perform as well with same rider in the turns
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Isnt that what I said? If not, thats what I meant :) A properly running 600 sport bike will spank a 14. Put an average young squid on a 600 and say Ben Spies on a 14 and the 14 wins. Put Spies on the 600, then a 14 and the 600 will be quicker.
Screw all this bench racing, lets ride!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Isnt that what I said? If not, thats what I meant :) A properly running 600 sport bike will spank a 14. Put an average young squid on a 600 and say Ben Spies on a 14 and the 14 wins. Put Spies on the 600, then a 14 and the 600 will be quicker.
Screw all this bench racing, lets ride!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes sir,
And I suspect we've been promoted to internetz armchair racing by now (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/avatars/badteeth.gif)
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So a Harley rider sees a yellow sign with 35 on it leading up to a curve, then they ride 35mph for the entire stretch of the road.
It is really bad when they have 6-10 pirate ships all wobbling down the yellow line at 35mph... And no passing zone is available... :-X
I beg to differ. HDs don't drive 35 mph because of some sign. They just can't get any faster than that, unless you drop them from a plane.
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I posted a pic of a curve carver in open forum ;D
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4530.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4530.0)
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Let's trot old the truism: Riding fast against the clock is for professionals, a challenging ride is what we mortals are looking for and never the twain shall meet..... OR... 40mph in an old Pinto= 130 mph in a Lambo when looking to generate some adrenaline! Fast/schmast... fun is the key.
BTW Steven,
Tell your s/o that she could be a model for Duc any day! :D you lucky sob.......
Fretka
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I posted a pic of a curve carver in open forum ;D
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4530.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=4530.0)
Let's trot old the truism: Riding fast against the clock is for professionals, a challenging ride is what we mortals are looking for and never the twain shall meet..... OR... 40mph in an old Pinto= 130 mph in a Lambo when looking to generate some adrenaline! Fast/schmast... fun is the key.
BTW Steven,
Tell your s/o that she could be a model for Duc any day! :D you lucky sob.......
Fretka
I'm going to tell her you said just that, and she'll like hearing it thanks (http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/bigthumb.gif)