I've never ran out of gas with it....

I ran out with 8 miles showing in range. But I discussed this with Brian and we think the problem was that I shut the bike off with less gas than could be registered on the sensor. Then when I start it up again, now it really doesn't have a clue how much gas is left. Therefor the theory is that if you ride it continuously down as it approaches zero it will be more accurate than riding it until very low and shut off. I don't know if Brian was ever able to verify that.

Just saw this thread and certainly want to comment, perhaps clarify some things. Sorry to anyone who has been bitten by the range remaining estimator although anything less than 10 miles, or even 15 miles, as per the instructions, is very risky anyway. That said, the range remaining indicator (estimator, not an exact measurement) is far more accurate than running out of fuel while showing 25 miles remaining.... unless the bike is being or very recently been used in stop- and- go traffic (full stops with a lot of accelerating and shifting).

The range function works best when an entire tank of fuel is used at steady speeds and loads, and especially highway speeds; this is exactly why I conjured it up in the first place- riding long distances on the highway and wondering if I had 15 or 45 miles of fuel left- that makes a BIG difference in Wyomigtannadaho at 2:00 AM as there are a  LOT of miles between fuel stations.

The range indicator basically takes what it has calculated is left in the tank for fuel and uses the instantaneous fuel consumption (the fuel economy reading in Miles Per Gallon or metric equivalent) to calculate the range left. That works well on the highway at steady speeds but not so well in stop- and- go riding. For example: let's say there is 1/2 gallon of fuel left in the tank. From a stop, you accelerate in first gear: the range calculator sees that you are currently getting 10 miles per gallon (remember, in first gear and accelerating: the mileage would be awful) and shows a range remaining of 5 miles. Then you close the throttle and pull in the clutch to shift to second and at that exact moment, the fuel consumption estimator would hit the upper 'hard limit' of 70 MPH (hey, closed throttle and doing, say, 15 MPH so the fuel economy would be phenomenal) and the range indicator would show 35 miles remaining (1/2 gallon at 70 miles to the gallon). Which reading should you believe..... neither one, they are both wrong and by a pretty large amount. The way to use the range remaining indicator under these circumstances is to do two things: 1) bring the bike up to a steady speed in the gear you would use at that speed and let the bike stabilize, neither accelerating or decelerating (and not going uphill (more load) or downhill (less load). Then the range remaining reading should stay pretty stable but always glance down at least three times to make sure it IS stable and not bouncing around. Once you have done that 2) do not trust the range remaining indicator below about 10 or better yet, 15 miles given the stop- and- go nature of the riding.

I am not aware of the circumstances that caused the bike to run out of fuel with 25 miles remaining but I would think it could be attributed to a few things: the first is glancing at an unstable set of readings (stop- and- go riding) at a particularly high (and very wrong) estimation, or radically changing the way the bike was ridden, especially toward the end of the tank of fuel; for example, riding for 250 miles on the highway and then a lot of stop- and- go riding to bias the calculation of the range remaining.

Kawasaki choose an extremely conservative way to give the rider tools for managing mileage: at approx. 50 miles remaining, they flash a pretty impressive warning, withhold the range remaining indicator (and instead threaten the rider with a dire warning) and basically leave the rider on his / her own. By overriding that warning and restoring the range remaining reading (remember, and estimate always), the low fuel warning eliminator gives the rider of a C-14 much better information and control, at least IMO, but at the same times, transfers some responsibility onto the rider to manage his / her own fuel.

And just to state some facts, my hardware takes no part in the computation or display of range remaining; that is all up to Kawasaki's ECU. My device merely interrupts the warning itself; it is beyond my humble abilities to tinker with the inner workins' of the ECU and certainly not with a plug 'n play piece of hardware; to tinker with the actual calculations, I would have to alter the code in the dash display computer which, of course, I do not have access to when I sell a Low fuel warning eliminator.

As always, I would be happy to discuss this further with anyone (or everyone), either publicly on this forum or privately via e-mail, whichever way a customer or potential customer chooses (gee, I guess that would be the whole world, right?......  )

Brian

I really like the product... But I ran out of gas with 25 miles still showing.   That doesn't change the fact that I still really like the product.

I ran out with 8 miles showing in range. But I discussed this with Brian and we think the problem was that I shut the bike off with less gas than could be registered on the sensor. Then when I start it up again, now it really doesn't have a clue how much gas is left. Therefor the theory is that if you ride it continuously down as it approaches zero it will be more accurate than riding it until very low and shut off. I don't know if Brian was ever able to verify that.

Brian, how much will a piggy back fuel controller screw with the mileage calcs?

I do not know Gary but it is a good point- something like a Power Commander makes all its changes after the ECU so the ECU would not 'know' the actual the amount of fuel being used was changed.

I think the initial thought would be that it would use more fuel and that would always cause the range display to read 'long' or to show more range than actual but my own PC III map is all over the place and actually has negative numbers in a lot of cells, meaning the actual fuel delivery is less than the ECU calculated.

Overall, the range indicator has been pretty accurate on my own bike, which is wearing a PC III and has had the 'flies' removed. But that is just one bike and an anecdotal story at best; I have no idea how it will work out on average.

Brian

Brian, how much will a piggy back fuel controller screw with the mileage calcs?

Brian, are these still available?

Just saw this- sorry, I do not get to the forum as much as I did before.

Yes, they are available and I have some in stock. Available (in the US) through my website, Incontrolne.com. Available most anywhere by contacting me.

Thanks for the interest.

Brian

Brian, are these still available?

Just saw this- sorry, I do not get to the forum as much as I did before.

Yes, they are available and I have some in stock. Available (in the US) through my website, Incontrolne.com. Available most anywhere by contacting me.

Thanks for the interest.

Brian

Cool, I'll order one from the website. Thanks!

Hey Brian, I ordered one of your low fuel delete warning and was wondering if you received my order? I have sent 2 additional emails to your website and have not got a reply, should I reorder it here on this forum? I look forward to installing it and getting rid of that annoying low fuel warning and fuel pump icon. Let me know, Thanks Robert

This tracking number 9400109699939296272983 has the item going to Merigold Mississippi and sent to a P.O box and it arrived on 1 Oct 2016, I live in Lawton Oklahoma I ordered my low fuel device on 3 October 2016 and used my PayPal account which has already showed a credit toward your Company. I appreciate any help from you in getting this resolved. Thanks again Robert Green (aka robval1987@yahoo.com) or (robval1987 on kawasaki Concours forum).
I tried to PM you but I got blocked from sending you a message.

Yes, got all your messages and have now replied to all of them. Your order was placed yesterday and while I normally ship the next day (which would be this morning), your product is going to ship one day later than that due to other distractions on my end. You will get a tracking number and e-mail message tonight and will receive your product w/in 2-3 days via USPS.

Next Monday morning a crew is coming to cut the second story (entirely: roof, walls) off of my house. This week the final sub- floor is going in and before that could happen ALL the electrical, plumbing, heating (hydronic piping), thermostat lines, cable, Ethernet and 100 amps of power for the entire second floor had to be routed and installed; after the sub- floor went in there is no longer access from the second floor to anything below. This was the source of my distraction..... it is sort of like a disaster but not nearly as organized. :-)  I will continue to ship product all through this project but these current house events have caused me, and you, one day's delay. I apologize for this but waiting for a human to fall through the floor (maybe just dangling, running legs like when it happens on cartoons) or worse yet, the knuckle of a crane to drop through has diverted my attention. There is an old saying, attributed as being a 'Chinese curse', that says: "May you live in interesting times." Well, the times they be intrestin' 'round these here parts lately. :-)

Brian

Hey Brian, I ordered one of your low fuel delete warning and was wondering if you received my order? I have sent 2 additional emails to your website and have not got a reply, should I reorder it here on this forum? I look forward to installing it and getting rid of that annoying low fuel warning and fuel pump icon. Let me know, Thanks Robert

This tracking number 9400109699939296272983 has the item going to Merigold Mississippi and sent to a P.O box and it arrived on 1 Oct 2016, I live in Lawton Oklahoma I ordered my low fuel device on 3 October 2016 and used my PayPal account which has already showed a credit toward your Company. I appreciate any help from you in getting this resolved. Thanks again Robert Green (aka robval1987@yahoo.com) or (robval1987 on kawasaki Concours forum).
I tried to PM you but I got blocked from sending you a message.

I received the fuel sensor delete, all I got t o say is outstanding product. Just for **** and giggles I decided to see how low I could go on the range. At 0 miles left I still went 7 mile per odometer before she began to sputter, so I hit the next off ramp and there just happened to be a gas station (still before I left on this test I fill a 2 gallon fuel can just in case), but none the less I loved being able to track my fuel range to the end. I did put $15.00 in fuel about 5.931 gallons of gas in a 6 gallon system. Thanks again Brian for a great little affordable effective device.

Thanks for the kind words and glad to hear you like the product.

And now we all know that the range indicator will not read in the negative range. :-)

Brian

I received the fuel sensor delete, all I got t o say is outstanding product. Just for **** and giggles I decided to see how low I could go on the range. At 0 miles left I still went 7 mile per odometer before she began to sputter, so I hit the next off ramp and there just happened to be a gas station (still before I left on this test I fill a 2 gallon fuel can just in case), but none the less I loved being able to track my fuel range to the end. I did put $15.00 in fuel about 5.931 gallons of gas in a 6 gallon system. Thanks again Brian for a great little affordable effective device.

Brian has a top notch product, and even better customer service. I havent been below 12 miles left on mine, but as mentioned, I just like not having it flash at me, and read to a lower level.  I will eventually get the Kipass device at some point as well.

Thanks again B !

I was originally planning on using a separate, remote warning in the form of a simple red LED that affixed somewhere on the dash. That way the bike would ignore the warning but the discreet LED would light when the 'low fuel' level was reached. The two basic problems with that method were cost and the fact that the remote LED would need to be wired onto the bike and a lot of people either cannot or do not want to do any dissemble, wire routing, possible drilling of holes, etc. This is the truly 'plug 'n play' version that can be added to the bike easily.

Rather than fitting a new LED did you consider utilising an existing one?

I'm thinking the red light that come on when you use the OEM override function on low fuel or low battery.

E.g. Use the pulse you are currently suppressing to fire (possibly fire a latchingrelay) a signal to that warning lamp in parallel to suppressing the main warning display.

Just a thought as not familiar with the bikes wiring or how easy it would be to tap that warning light

Just a thought as not familiar with the bikes wiring or how easy it would be to tap that warning light

Probably not very easy.  At a minimum, it would require removing the dash/instrument cluster, opening up that unit, then soldering a lead to the lamp.

That would be even more difficult and cost more to produce. It is not that it cannot be done but it cannot be done at a level that would be reasonable considering cost and installation issues.

One of the really important parts of my products is that they are very easy to install and require absolutely no modification of the bike whatsoever. Certainly it is easy enough to cut into a harness (loom) and add or alter wires to an existing circuit..... for someone skilled in doing this. For the vast majority of motorcycle riders, this is either not desirable, not applicable (beyond their comfort or tool range) or both.

I believe I was the first one to adapt a Rostra cruise onto a C-14 back in '08 and wrote up a fairly detailed guide on how to do this. Still, installing one of those requires modifying both electrical circuits (again, simple cutting, splicing and tapping) and some relatively simple fabrication. When I put up the tutorial, I believed that virtually 100% of the problems would be on the mechanical side with the electrical side being simple enough to be w/in most everyones' reach. It turned out to be exactly the opposite: it seems people rip right through the fabrication part, and many have actually improved the installation considerably from my original but many people get stopped cold by the wiring, including quite a few things that were really surprising to me such as 'There is no orange wire on my Rostra' (yep, there is) and 'I tied all the "left over" wires to ground 'cause I knew they could not just dangle'. [Sorry if I am mentioning anyone specific- not my intent to point to anyone specifically or poke fun at anyone at all, just showing examples that come to mind]  So, while your thoughts and ideas may work in some cases, they are not practical to provide to the general public. In fact, there are areas where I will not even provide the method of doing some things because I believe it might be dangerous for some folks to tinker in areas that involve and ECU or ABS brakes or similar.

Back to the LED: the low fuel warning circuit on a C-14 is not a switch but a more complex circuit, so there is no 'current when the switch is on' to route anywhere. The only way to adapt the existing circuit to act as a trigger for an electrical / electronic device is with a third, active circuit (i.e., a programmable controller) and again, that would be cost prohibitive to market and far too expensive for me to produce and give away. :-)  The underlying problem is that any such item would only work on a C-14 so there is no sizeable market to develop more complex products.

Brian

Rather than fitting a new LED did you consider utilising an existing one?

I'm thinking the red light that come on when you use the OEM override function on low fuel or low battery.

E.g. Use the pulse you are currently suppressing to fire (possibly fire a latchingrelay) a signal to that warning lamp in parallel to suppressing the main warning display.

Just a thought as not familiar with the bikes wiring or how easy it would be to tap that warning light

Tried to order the low fuel setup and it says out of stock. Wanting to get one asap. Thanks let me know when it is back in stock.

Working on it- should have some by the end of the weekend or first of this week.

Brian

Tried to order the low fuel setup and it says out of stock. Wanting to get one asap. Thanks let me know when it is back in stock.

Let me know when you do. Want one on the way ASAP. Thanks