Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: julianop on August 06, 2011, 09:50:56 PM
-
I was looking at what was described to me as a Kawasaki Concours at my local dealer, but when I test drove it I found it to be only a five-speed. Is this a Concours, or something else?
-
Something else. The Concours has six, one down, six up: 1-N-2-3-4-5-6. Can ya post a pix of the bike?
-
I'll look at it again. It pretty much has to be an Yamaha FJR or something doesn't it? You'd have thought I'd have noticed the emblem on the tank, wouldn't you?
I was looking around for a used tourer all day, as I'm getting back into riding after a couple of decades (OK, three decades) and I had a head full of bikes by that time.
It was certainly a few years old, had analog gauges, two mileage trips (seemed unusual), a four position adjuster on the brake lever, fixed windshield...
It was a growly thing, too, not the smoothness of a Honda (or a Kawi, as I remember).
I'll call the dealer back on Monday and solve the mystery.
-
Doesn't Mr Bergman have a growly 5 speed concours........ ;)
-
Well I've been scouring the Internet for pictures, and I found one of a black 2004:
http://www.bikepics.com/kawasaki/ZG1000/04/pics.asp (http://www.bikepics.com/kawasaki/ZG1000/04/pics.asp)
The bike I rode looks like that, I remember the air scoops at shin level.
I also remember the silver metal brake lever adjusters like on this 2002:
http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/364837/ (http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/364837/)
But were models of that vintage (or before, even) 5-speeds, though?
-
But were models of that vintage (or before, even) 5-speeds, though?
Nope. They were six speeds from 1986 (first year) to 2006 (final year).
-
Doesn't Mr Bergman have a growly 5 speed concours........ ;)
No I'm pretty sure his "special" Concours still has the 6 speed tranny. He split the cases and swapped the 6 speed ZG gears in place of the 5 speed ZRX gears.
-
It's easy to get confused. You looked at lot's of bikes and had lots of info in your head. If you buy a Connie it will have 6 gears.
-
Well the mystery will have to last at least until tomorrow, but at least three things are true in my memory:
1. The machine I rode was faired just like the 2004 machine in the link I posted above, complete with three top boxes, the helmet locks and luggage tie-down hooks, twin glove boxes and the (apparently reversible) shin level air scoops, and it was equipped with the twin trips and digital mfr-branded clock.
2. I couldn't shift up past a fifth gear - four up-shifts from one-down.
3. I distinctly remember pulling 4000 RPM at 70 MPH, +/- loose change - which was just like the top gear of the ST1300 and F800RT I also rode that day - both of which are 6'ers :-)
Ok, four things...
4. The bike is significantly more growly (is it OK to use that word?!) than the ST1300, that, though not unpleasantly, is like a two-wheeled sewing machine.
Assuming either there is a rogue gearbox in there, or my memory is broken, or my gear shifting technique needs serious work, I really liked the neat feature of being able to put a hand down by where the fairing meets the fuel tank and get a nice warm stream of air; that'll help when I'm riding late in the northern Midwest fall.
OK, here's what's really going on here...
I'm getting back into cycling after a 36 year hiatus. My first machine, back in the UK, was a Kawasaki 100 that reliably took me through rain and several groins full of hail between Cheltenham (home, at that time) and Gloucester (work), and occasional 90 mile jaunts to London to visit my grandfather. That all came to a screeching halt when I earned my first (and so far only) smidsy when somebody did a Y-turn in front of me. I still bear the scars proudly: under my chin (helmet clasp) and right leg that got squashed between my fuel tank and the cager's left fender.
Years later I now live States-side in Elk River Minnesota, and I work in Rockford Illinois - a 720 mile weekly round trip. I've been doing this for three years, and have been too slow in the head until now to realize that I could have a lot more fun and save a bit of cash by doing this on two weeks for six months out of the year (or more, but I don't want to get too cocky). So here I am looking for a bike to do it on. My dream re-entry machine was always a BMW - either a K1300 or a 1200RT - but I'm not wealthy enough to buy a K, and the oil-head RTs have short and expensive service intervals. I was looking at an ST1300 that was advertised on my dealer's site, but when I went in to test drive it yesterday there was this "alleged" Connie, sitting there in all it's glory, complete with additional front lights (perfect for long highway miles dodging deer and coyotes in the Midwest), additional modulated LED stop lights (in case my previous assailant is still alive, over here, and behind me now!), highway pegs, and after-market heated grips - all at less than 30,000 miles on the clock and for well less green than the ST, which is priced at $7500 - and the dealer put brand new tires on it too. It was hard not to just drive away on it right there.
Can anyone suggest anything else (sacrilege to say "better" in a ZG/GTR forum, I know!), or should I phone them 1 minute after opening time tomorrow morning and put money down? Is there anything in particular I should ask about/consider/be wary of?
Finally, being a older (55) and hopefully wiser returning rider with an ambitious plan and what seems like a great opportunity for some great (if repetitive) big-slab time, may I submit an open request/invitation for advice and recommendations in support (or otherwise) of my plan?
Thanks all!
-
:nuts: :grouphug: :popcorn:
-
I'm guessing that during the upshift, you somehow by-passed one of the gears.... :o
Can be done, especially if you're;
1: new to the bike
2: re-entering riding, ie; paying more attention to balance, throttle input/control, cycle operation
3: traffic factors
I would think that if there was a malfunctioning gearbox in a Concours( or other brand for that matter), the shifting mechanism would hang-up or there would be weird noises coming from the gearbox during the test ride.
On the other hand, an early model K100LT BMW looks like the clone of the Concours & they DO have 5 speed trannys.
-
Welcome julianop. You said the bike was turning 4,000 at 70 so I think you were in sixth gear at the time. If you are leaning toward this bike I think I would ask to ride it one more time before you put your money down. This time you can focus more on this bike and what you like and don't like about it and then decide if the likes outweigh the dislikes. A lot of people complain about their knees with the stock pegs on the Concours. I'm 59, 6'0" with a 34" inseam and the stock pegs are fine on my 03. A lot of people install bar risers to get a more upright seating position. I've never felt the need to raise the bars. The Concours is a bit top heavy at slow speeds. Not a problem but just something to be aware of. If you spend some time here, you will discover there are lots of frugal mods that can be done to the Concours to make it the bike you want. Kind of fine tuning it to your needs. You will also find a great group of guys and answers to probably any question or problem you may have with the bike.
-
DeansZG: Oh there's absolutely no way I would confuse a BMW for anything else! No, I'm positive now that this was a Connie; I've looked at enough pictures of Connies over the model lifespan to be absolutely sure now. It sure looks like I missed a gear on the up-shift. Thinking back over the ride experience, I remember on a couple of occasions during my ride being "higher than I thought I was" on the downshift toward intersections, so you may have hit the nail on the head. Being an engineer by trade, I would be inclined to agree with you regarding a seriously malfunctioning box - it would have been obvious through noise or hang-ups.
jklhill: thanks for the welcome/ Yep, based on the numbers from the other bikes I pretty much had to be; a five speed box probably wouldn't have that ratio for top gear, would it? In my research (albeit only over the past twenty four hours) I've not read anybody complain of a tall box on a Connie, and nobody but nobody in any reviews has ever mentioned a five speed box.
Talking of it being a top heavy bike, I actually managed to play around a line of yellow center-line markers in some road construction, and I didn't have any trouble at all weaving among them, so I'm not worried there. I'm 55, 5'9", 168lbs and 32"inseam, and I could flat-foot the bike with no effort.
No, the only issue that bothered me in the slightest was the roughness at low RPM. Even the vibration I noticed at cruise speed, while not ignorable, was not unpleasant, and didn't give me numb hands - and I did the test ride without gloves.
I don't remember if the primary pegs were in stock position - I think so - but the highway pegs were a nice alternative, even if I had to turn my feet in to get my shins around the deflectors. I don't think I would need to raise the bars. I only did a forty mile ride, but it felt comfortable. Finally, though I've heard a lot about windshields lately - especially having had the BMW F800ST on my list of candidates - I don't think there could be anything much better that the (looks flat enough to be stock) windshield on this Connie.
Another small mystery:
The previous owner put two three way switches on this machine: one just below and to the left of the gauges, and one on the rear-facing vertical panel of the left fairing just by my knee. The upper one turned out to be for the heated grips; it would be totally wonderful if the lower one turns out to be for a heated seat! I did notice that when either of the switches were out of the center position the voltage - as displayed on what looks like an aftermarket digital voltmeter - started to fall below 14 when running, indicating a significant electrical load. I'll investigate that when I do as you suggest - ride it again before I drop money on it. It would be absolutely ideal if the machine were fully kitted out for serious cold weather touring.
-
The roughness at low RPM is kind of normal for a stock jetted Concours. If the bike has sat at all or the carbs are dirty at all it just magnifies the problem. Removing and cleaning the carbs will help and SISF (Steve in Sunny Florida) has a jet kit that will absolutely take care of the problem. If your not up to the work you can ship him your carbs. Do your research here and here http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php)
-
The previous owner put two three way switches on this machine: one just below and to the left of the gauges, and one on the rear-facing vertical panel of the left fairing just by my knee. The upper one turned out to be for the heated grips; it would be totally wonderful if the lower one turns out to be for a heated seat! I did notice that when either of the switches were out of the center position the voltage - as displayed on what looks like an aftermarket digital voltmeter - started to fall below 14 when running, indicating a significant electrical load. I'll investigate that when I do as you suggest - ride it again before I drop money on it. It would be absolutely ideal if the machine were fully kitted out for serious cold weather touring.
No that would be an indication of a normal charging system as the upper limit according to the factory service manual is 14 volts; the charging system should settle down around 12.5 to 13.5 volts all depending on specifics such as voltage regulators and more importantly meter accuracy.
-
Hey,
Good luck with the Connie, I absolutely love mine!!
I do have one question though. Have you considered taking a MSF style safety class as a refresher? In my experience you would definitely benefit from a brush up of your skills after a long break. If you can supply an Illinois address the class is FREE!! There is even a range in Rockford although I don't work there.
Please consider it before riding a big bike like a Concours on such a long commute.
Just my $.02, feel free to ignore me... :-)
Also shoot me a pm if you want more info...
-
T-Cro - Sorry, I wasn't meaning to opine that there was anything wrong - just commenting on the fact that there was a visible change as a function of load, which is normal for higher wattage loads (yes, I'm an electrical guy by trade).
jklhill - glad to hear that's normal. I certainly remember enough normally aspirated old British bikes with fussy carbs and cantankerous ignition systems; I had just thought that lumpiness was ancient history by now. If I buy this Connie, then based on his reputation I'll talk to "SISF" about doing something for me over the "zero traction months"...
ITeach2Wheels - Hell no, I wouldn't be on this forum if I was of the ilk to ignore good advice! Yes I have thought long and hard about a refresher, and I agree with you that it would be beneficial (see earlier comment about older and hopefully wiser!) and I still will do so even if I go straight to a road test. My immediate goal is to get back on two wheels to handle the commute before the end of the season, and given that my weekly commute, though long, is relatively benign and familiar, I'm comfortable that I have sufficient sense to be able to handle it safely. I've read Hough's first book cover to cover, and I will definitely do a refresher (or even an advanced course) before I do any touring. I've been in this wonderful country for nearly twenty nine years and haven't seen a hundredth of what I want to see (you all know the rest of this song, don't you?!). I do know enough to know that there is a lot to learn before I take on unfamiliar conditions. There'd be no point in killing myself before I even started fulfilling my dream.
You say refresher courses are free in Illinois???? I will have a Minnesota license, though (as my automobile license is MN), so I'm not sure I will qualify. But you did say "supply an Illinois address" didn't you...
I will PM you on this as soon as I find out how to; thanks for the offer.
Thank you all for your wisdom...
-
Quick questions to help me/test your collective Concours trivia knowledge ...
1. Did Kawasaki do the one-color-per-year thing like Honda? In other words, the Connie I'm looking at is deep blue; does that define its vintage?
2. Related to that, I see pics for the 2006 model being blue. but the discussions talk about a choke. There was definitely no choke on the machine I rode. What does that tell me?
-
Quick questions to help me/test your collective Concours trivia knowledge ...
1. Did Kawasaki do the one-color-per-year thing like Honda? In other words, the Connie I'm looking at is deep blue; does that define its vintage?
2. Related to that, I see pics for the 2006 model being blue. but the discussions talk about a choke. There was definitely no choke on the machine I rode. What does that tell me?
1: Yes Big-K did one color per year except for the fact that overseas models including the Canada models were in all likelihood a different color.
2: More than like you missed what is called the "Choke" it is called a choke in the manuals but it is a fuel enrichment lever that is parked just inboard of the left side handle-bar controls.
-
Quick questions to help me/test your collective Concours trivia knowledge ...
BTW "testing" our collective Concours trivia knowledge is going to be a big FAIL on your part...... Many of us here have either owned one since inception or have admired one since the same. 8)
Also I have the Service Manual and 2003 Parts Micro Fiche on my pocket drive with me 24/7 so fire at will......
-
Julianop - welcome to the forum. I'm am more of a lurker than a poster, but I also just returned to 2 wheels after a 15 year hiatus 56 years old, 5'7" and I'm not revealing my weight other than to say too much) , having bought a 2006 Connie. When I took my test ride, I was made very aware of the top heaviness of the bike at slow speed. I've accumulated about 3600 miles since the end of April when I bought the bike and still pretty much grin ear to ear when I ride. Living in southwest NH, my riding season will be similar to yours.
I'm going to add a couple of photos to this posting of my bike, which is pretty much stock at this point. Farkles (low cost, frugal ones) will be added when I can.
Jeff
-
I must have missed the fuel enrichment lever. We certainly didn't need it to start it in 75F weather. Maybe it was already warm.
And sorry, I didn't mean test as in "challenge", T Cro - I wouldn't be so presumptuous. I meant as in "invite you to dig it out". If you're all at least as old as me, you'll know that memories tend to blend over time ;-)
-
Thanks for the welcome and pictures, potshotpanda.
The cockpit of the machine I rode is much like yours, except that 1) only 1 of the boxes was lockable and 2) the junction of the shield to the fairing wasn't so "refined": there was obvious nuts and bolts. I'll assume "mine" was older - maybe around 2004.
Hey T Cro : service manual and parts micro fiche on a pocket drive? Now that's the kind of obsession I admire!
-
Stop apologizing will ya? I'm just a matter of fact type poster and nope no where near as OLD as you; just shy of 48....
-
julianop:
The bikes from 1986 to 1993 were all the same, then for the 1994 model year Kaw changed the front suspension, the brakes, the seat, and the dashboard, in general. Pre-'94's had the dashboard with the flat wide speedometer kind of like some Japanese cars of that era. The post-'94's use the round speedo, tach, etc. From 1994 until 2006, the only difference visible is the color. Some of the biggest differences you may see on used bikes are the trunk boxes (none came stock, and there are many after-market types) and windshields of which there are many variants, and perhaps custom seats. And of course tires.
I think what T-Cro meant about testing the tribal knowledge here is that there is just sooooo much experince and knowledge on this forum that there is likely no question that can be asked that SOMEONE can't answer.
Happy hunting and welcome to the zoo.
-
What kind of oil do you plan to use? ;)
-
.... I think what T-Cro meant about testing the tribal knowledge here is that there is just sooooo much experince and knowledge on this forum that there is likely no question that can be asked that SOMEONE can't answer.
Ding - Ding - Ding We have a winner! ;)
-
Welcome to the connie, Julianop. If you want to see if the bike you rode was an '04, click on my website in my sig line and go to the photo gallery. My bike is an 04, and is a clean, mostly stock example of one :stirpot: HTH, Steve
-
Let's get this bit out of the way and move on:
I understand exactly what T Cro meant. My fear was simply that as a total unknown here, he might have misunderstood my very first post, and been offended. I absolutely didn't want to come across as arrogant, and as he commented that attempting to "test" his/your knowledge would be a FAIL, I assumed that that was what he thought I was doing. I felt that I had to correct what appeared to be a misunderstanding, and thought that a polite way of doing that was by apologizing for conveying the wrong message.
I came here knowing full well - especially because of the long heritage of the Connie - that the people here would be very knowledgeable about the bike, as if the very name of the site wasn't enough of a clue. In contrast I didn't even know about that bike until a month ago, and obviously know little more about it now. In short, I'm here to gather knowledge and to join a community, not to offend anybody.
Moving on...
Nosmo: thanks for the info, and yes, I'm counting on y'all knowing everything !!
jbailey: re oil, that was a question I was going going to get around to. I have a personal preference for the temperature stability and longevity offered by synthetics in the 4-wheel arena, but I don't know if that is the collective wisdom for motorcycles. Would you care to advise?
Steve: will do right now, thanks!
-
Julianop, OK, relax, Teecro didn't mean anything by his response, other than stating the obvious. Nobody is offended. Breathe in ... Breathe out... it's all good - Steve
-
Cool! Hey, I need help from you guys - I still have to convince the wife this whole commute thing is a good idea :-)
-
Let's get this bit out of the way and move on:
I understand exactly what T Cro meant. My fear was simply that as a total unknown here, he might have misunderstood my very first post, and been offended.....
Trust me you will know when you have pissed me off or annoyed me........... I've been hanging out in this joint for near to ten years and these guys all know that I often sound like a growly bear but I'm nothing but an overstuffed teddy bear until pushed the wrong way. Thus far you've done nothing but engage me in friendly banter. 8)
BTW Bears like marshmallows and get really annoyed when you only bring one or two into the cage! :hitfan:
-
Thanks for that T Cro !!!
OK - the update ... it's a 2006 Concours, officially, and I'm going to ride it again in a few minutes, and probably buy it.
Here's the feature list again:
A little less than 27,000 miles,
fairings, etc, in good visual shape - not excellent, but good;
a little discoloration on the metal parts around the cockpit - it's obviously seen some weather, but not bad;
addition forward driving lights - not top name but they sure put out some light;
additional modulated LED stop light;
hard side panniers and top box, good condition;
highway foot pegs (you know - out in front, "HD" style);
after market (of course) heated grips; possibly heated seat - I have yet to find out what that additional switch is for;
after market (I assume) digital voltmeter;
throttle lock;
wiring for intercom (but intercom not supplied);
ball mount front and center at the base of the windshield - presumably for a GPS (not supplied).
Price $5000.
I'll check out the "missing" gear when I drive it later, and report back - so far, the money is on operator error !!
Wish me luck!
-
Julianop, just so you have some sort of 'measuring stick', I bought my '97 in April. 17,000 miles, in fair to excellent condition, (right mirror had a crack in the housing, left sidecover was cracked at bolthole), but very nice considering it is 14 years old. Bone stock, no issues to report yet and has been running fantastic. Paid $2600. I'm thinking there might be a lot of bargaining room. Good luck to you.
-
Hmm, now you say, anycleavers ;-)
(kidding)
Well I may have missed an opportunity, but I thought $5000 was a decent price, and I've been "to-ing and fro-ing" my poor dealer for weeks now, so I paid it without complaint. She's mine now !!!
It turns out it has a Rifle windshield. It's so smooth it's like sitting in my back yard on a warm summer afternoon while I'm actually traveling at 70. It also has a Givi back box with back rest, so that'll be good for the journey.
Oh, and I found the lost gear - it was indeed operator error!
I'll upload a couple of pics shortly.
Thanks again for all the help; I'll be back with noob questions shortly...
-
Congrats! I have zero regrets and am still grinning! ;D The resources that the members here provide is unparallelled, I don't think there is anything that can't be answered. Heck, on another thread here some one was estimating water output from a sewer drain! :rotflmao:
Enjoy the ride. Sean
-
It turns out it has a Rifle windshield. It's so smooth it's like sitting in my back yard on a warm summer afternoon while I'm actually traveling at 70. It also has a Givi back box with back rest, so that'll be good for the journey.
Oh, and I found the lost gear - it was indeed operator error!
Yeah, you wanna watch that illusion of armchair traveling. The Connie will fool you. I have the Rifle 'shield system also, and I find it smoooooth and quiet. You can easily be doing 70+ and feeling like 30, and about then you hit that 30 MPH corner, you may find that the brakes and tires may not be up to the challenge. :o I've never gone off-roading, but I've scared meself.
Speaking of "the lost gear": The engine is a revver so she'll spin up a bit on the highway, and before long you'll be asking yourself "Where's 7th gear?" It's right here:
http://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home (http://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home)
From our own Steve In Sunny Florida
-
Yeah Nosmo, she certainly is smooth through the air - I love it. No, I'm very conservative about curves right now: I don't want egg on my face in front of the "trouble 'n strife" given all the grief I got from her buying the darn thing ;-)
On the lost gear issue, yes, that's exactly the thought I got when I first drove it: "it needs another gear". I said exactly that to my dealer, and it is that thought that triggered the whole 5-speed saga in the first place. I will certainly look into your 7th gear mod.
Oh, and I finally found the choke too, T Cro ;-)
I'm trying to post a picture of my new baby here - hope it "takes"...
Grief - look at the previous owner's COG emblem shining bright there... guess that means I should join too.
-
Be advised on the "7th gear" mod-you don't actually have 7 gears. It's a taller 6th gear.which is like having a 7th. A worthwhile mod if ya do a lot of slabbing.
-
Your bike also has a Fender Extender. (makes the rear of the front fender longer). Nice looking bike. Time to free up the gas card. I've ran well over 100 gallons thru mine in just over a month. :)
-
also has a corbin seat :thumbs:
-
Congratulations julianop! Looks real nice. Let us know what the second mystery switch turns out to be for.
-
Just found this thread. I'm up in MN kinda knocking around, could of hooked up yesterday or this morning, you would have been able to see what a '99 looks like after 150k miles.
If possible, try contacting the previous owner for more info on the bike. As a COGger, he/she should be quite cooperative.
Clarification: The 7th gear mod is a different gearset in the bevel drive, it raises all gears up 8 or 12%, depending on your choice. Especially nice if you're doing a lot of slabbing.
Suggestion: Do get your carbies SiSF-ied. Present price is $300, plus any parts that may be needed. This includes cleaning, 2 minute jet mod, and most importantly, overflow tubes.
Finally: Keep and eye on the events section here and over at the COG forum, quite active in the MN area, and nice folks to meet up with. I moved from Hastings, MN to FLA in '06. (I do not miss the winters). Headed back at O dark thirty this Friday.
Oh, and welcome.
-
also has a corbin seat :thumbs:
Looks like a late model stock seat to me. Just like the one on my 06.
-
Couldn't get on the site last night to reply, so here are catch-ups...
Cholla - yes, I learned that, and as I will be doing 720 miles a week of slabbing between MN and IL while the weather is good I'm very interested in that mod.
Gregm784 - thanks for the comment. Good to hear about the fender mod - is that cosmetic or does it minimize pick-up from the road?
Jet86/Outback_Jon - I'll look for evidence of it being a name brand when I get back home this weekend.
jklhill - I will. The dealer said it isn't for a heated seat, so now I'm mystified. I'll poke around this weekend. And thanks for the comment.
SteveJ - I'm in Rockford Illinois through the week and only return home to Elk River at weekends; hopefully we can makes something work soon. Yep, I read up on the "shoodaben" mod, and have that straight in my head. I'm certainly going to do it - probably over the winter. And yes, I'll do the carbs too. I'll try to contact the previous owner - his name is in the owner's manual, so shouldn't be too tough.
I think that's handled the posted from all you kind folks. I'm really thrilled with the camaraderie on this site, not to mention the knowledge.
On that subject .... trailering...
I'm renting a U-haul motorcycle trailer this weekend to bring the bike down to Illinois. I'd welcome observations, recommendations or even plain anecdotes and warnings on this before I lash 'er down and hitch up the trailer to the back of my Grand Caravan. 360 miles is a long way with 650 lbs of bike behind my right ear, and I don't want to make any obvious mistakes. Not leaving it on the center stand is the first thing I learned already...
One last question: the red illumination from the after market voltmeter is too bright for night ops. Does anyone know (before I pull it out to look) if it's normal to have dimmer connections on motorcycle instruments?
Thanks all for your comments and advice.
-
Good to hear about the fender mod - is that cosmetic or does it minimize pick-up from the road?
The fender extender extends the back of the front fender farther down to prevent rocks and other road debris being thrown into the oil cooler/radiator area.
And Outback Jon is correct. Stock seat.
-
Fender: that's what I hoped.
Seat: no problem, it seems comfortable enough... but I'll tell you if I still think that way after my first iron-butt journey between Illinois and Minnesota :o
The guy who outfitted this machine was smart - made good choices on options, and I think I'm darn lucky it came along at just the right time.
-
Very nice. Enjoy!
-
also has a corbin seat :thumbs:
That is not a Corbin.... Looks to be a stocker.
-
One last question: the red illumination from the after market voltmeter is too bright for night ops. Does anyone know (before I pull it out to look) if it's normal to have dimmer connections on motorcycle instruments?
Generally no.... Not saying you might not be able to do something with the one you got but generally the anwser would be no.
-
Juilianop - Nice looking bike - I personally prefer the darker blue of the 2006, but don't want to start (restart, resume) the discussion on the fastest color. ;)
On mine, I'm seriously considering some nose art (aka WWII aircraft) where you have the COG emblem. Have to find the right person to do it and the right design - risque, but not offensive. I'm politically incorrect, but I do have a 9 year old daughter.
Good luck with her.
Jeff
-
Anycleavers - thanks!
T-Cro - re voltmeter: that's a problem, it really is distractingly bright at night. I'll pull it out when I have time and see if there's a third wire. Otherwise I'm going to have to get some theatrical gel and mask it down a bit further.
potshotpanda - glad I missed the color saga ;-) Well my machine is a 2006, so maybe the sunshine and the cellphone camera make it look brighter than it really is. Nice idea on the nose art ! Er, yes, you do have to be careful. It'll start a whole new direction of inquisitive thinking about you in her mind that would be better delayed for a few more years! My teenage sons are very critical of me - I can't say a thing about any ... er ... "walking scenery" without suffering a scolding from them!
-
potshotpanda - glad I missed the color saga ;-) Well my machine is a 2006, so maybe the sunshine and the cellphone camera make it look brighter than it really is.
Yep. That's exactly what sunshine and a cellphone camera do to the 06 color.
Looking at your picture again, your scoops are on the wrong sides. They're turned upside down so they face front, but they are switched left to right. Two screws each and it will look much better.
-
Looking at your picture again, your scoops are on the wrong sides. They're turned upside down so they face front, but they are switched left to right. Two screws each and it will look much better.
Good eye !
Well hopefully they'll sit a bit better when I flip them around. As I mentioned a couple days ago, when I put my feet on the highway pegs my shins hit the scoops and I have to turn my feet in to get them to stay on the pegs. Hopefully the flip will fix that.
So when I flip them to the winter position, I will have to flip front to back and left to right? Maybe the previous owner didn't do that, and that's why they're wrong now? It's flipping my brain just thinking about it. Something else to mess with this weekend. Hope the wife doesn't have too many honey-do's when I get home.
-
Look at your U Haul trailer selection. They have a few with a corrugated (large) floor and a built in V in the nose that acts as a wheel chock. These also have in floor tie down loops. Might be hard to find but worth looking for. That's a nice looking bike.
-
I've ran well over 100 gallons thru mine in just over a month. :)
I just thought that through: it's over 4000 miles, 4500, maybe? I wish I had your spare time to cruise around like that. Lucky fella.
-
Look at your U Haul trailer selection. They have a few with a corrugated (large) floor and a built in V in the nose that acts as a wheel chock. These also have in floor tie down loops. Might be hard to find but worth looking for. That's a nice looking bike.
Yup, that's exactly what I have set up for the weekend, Ron Dawg - a proper motorcycle trailer, on a three-day "in town" rental for $45. Turns out the rental center is less than a mile from where I work - can't beat that for convenience. I was a little concerned, so I went round to get an early look at it. You're right - it's an excellent trailer - and I feel fully confident about the journey now. I borrowed some webbing straps from a motorcycling buddy I work with, he taught me how to tie it down properly - compressing the front suspension slightly - and think I'm good to go. And thanks for the compliment. I think I'm going to call her Alice, though I have absolutely no idea why; it's not that I ever knew a gal with that name.
-
I liked that drop ramp on the UHaul, too. When I picked up my "new to me" 2000 last fall, the PO showed me how to tie it down. He took the seat off to get to the frame and I brought soft ties (Wal Mart) which looped around the frame and then were hooked by the ratchet straps pulled back, but FIRST do the front. Soft ties have a sewn loop in both ends like a tow strap and are about 18-24" long. He tied the front down first also using the soft ties around the fork brace (which he thoughtfully had installed) not the handle bars which would be tempting. Then the back end. It rode 350 miles like that, but check it after a few miles and then when you stop to stretch. Good luck.
-
"Seat off" - excellent idea - I'll use it.
"Soft ties" - I'll look for them; nicer than the webbing to prevent any abrasion.
"Front first" - yup, got that.
"Fork brace" - don't know what that is, but if the PO installed it I won't have one.
"Check after a few miles" - got that.
Thanks for that advice.
I'm also going to arrange for somebody to spot me on the load, and especially the unload; I'm not a big guy, and this beast will get away from me given half a chance. Neither have I done the advanced course where you learn to ride downhill backwards ;)
-
Anycleavers - thanks!
T-Cro - re voltmeter: that's a problem, it really is distractingly bright at night. I'll pull it out when I have time and see if there's a third wire. Otherwise I'm going to have to get some theatrical gel and mask it down a bit further.
potshotpanda - glad I missed the color saga ;-) Well my machine is a 2006, so maybe the sunshine and the cellphone camera make it look brighter than it really is. Nice idea on the nose art ! Er, yes, you do have to be careful. It'll start a whole new direction of inquisitive thinking about you in her mind that would be better delayed for a few more years! My teenage sons are very critical of me - I can't say a thing about any ... er ... "walking scenery" without suffering a scolding from them!
Perhaps a piece of dark window tint?
-
Perhaps a piece of dark window tint?
Yeah, that's an idea. If I can get it apart I might be able to insert something between the display and the outer glass. I do hope it's dimmable though; right now it's like a second brake light, and I could easily read a map by it. There are the actual voltage numbers - "13.9" for example - and a bright red battery symbol. I thought at first the red battery symbol was a high/low voltage warning, but I don't think I've ever seen it go out.
It could be broken, I suppose...
Hey, I'm a "Junior Member" now. Over twenty posts. That didn't take long.
-
Just remove the scoops alltogether! You won't miss 'em & it'll reduce the weave when running in "dirty" air...
-
Just remove the scoops alltogether! You won't miss 'em & it'll reduce the weave when running in "dirty" air...
They're supposed to help cool you in warm weather when scooping in and warm you in cold weather when scooping out, right? Either way means redirecting air flow which could differ either side of the bike, causing erratic lateral forces, hence weaving.
Taking them off all together reduces the lateral forces; makes sense to me. Something else to play around with :-)
-
Just remove the scoops alltogether! You won't miss 'em & it'll reduce the weave when running in "dirty" air...
I've never noticed any weave, except for the one that is induced by my CeeBailey screen at um... extra-legal speeds. ;D
-
Just remove the scoops alltogether! You won't miss 'em & it'll reduce the weave when running in "dirty" air...
Me I prefer the Baker AirWings in place of the stockers as you can adjust the Bakers by hand for more or less flow on your feet and they do not cause the dirty air weaving that the stockers did. Just keep the adjustments tight as if one gets loose and gets caught by the wind and pulled full outboard just me it is like dropping just one flap on a German Stuka Dive Bomber.......
-
Just use a little magic marker on that bright indicator light.
-
Just use a little magic marker on that bright indicator light.
It's not just a light it is an entire LED voltage meter with number display...
-
I've never noticed any weave, except for the one that is induced by my CeeBailey screen at um... extra-legal speeds. ;D
Removing the scoops on mine really helped reduce instability behind and around big rigs even with my CB screen and I don't notice any temperature difference on my shins.
-
Catch-up...
Yes, it's an entire display, a simple marker trick won't solve the problem. going home to MN tonight, so I'll look at it in the morning.
I'll investigate the scoop issue. Baker AirWings, you say T Cro? I'll look 'em up. Of course there are two different situations: one is scoop-in, when you want the cool air; and the other is scoop-out, when you want to draw warm air out from the engine. I'll try DeansZG's and jklhill's suggestion of removing them altogether first, while the weather is warm, and see what I get. If there's a difference it might induce me to check out those Baker AirWings.
Dropping a single flap on a Stuka .... can you even do that ?? Well, I don't know the flap stops on a Stuka, but 1-5 degrees would give you lift and you'd roll it; 15 or more degrees would just give you drag, and you'd be in a horizontal spin before you can say Kamikaze !
How did we get on this subject? ;-)
-
How did we get on this subject? ;-)
I dropped a flap....... :o
-
I used some 90% window tint on my Kuryakin(sp?) voltage indicator, just covered the whole gauge. It's been there about 4 years now. Works well.
On my way back to FLA, so no meet up. Currently at the fine lodging digs of Super 8, in Marion, Illannoyd. Should be home tomorrow evening.
Have fun.
-
I have a Corbin that looks like a stocker: they are out there. I cannot tell the difference until I turn it over and look at the metal rivets, Corbin identifier, metal pan and welded initials.
SAS Mayhem will be here to verify tonight, so I should be able to get pics of stock, Corbin look alike, and Canyon.
-
I have a Corbin that looks like a stocker: they are out there. I cannot tell the difference until I turn it over and look at the metal rivets, Corbin identifier, metal pan and welded initials.
SAS Mayhem will be here to verify tonight, so I should be able to get pics of stock, Corbin look alike, and Canyon.
I don't question what you say you have but I will beg to differ.... All of the Corbins that I've owned (least 4) have had a fiber based pan.
-
Well, to conclude the discussion on the seat, I see no indication that it is anything other than stock. There is an x of y stamp (something like "349/500") on the underside to suggest that it's part of a batch, but nothing that looks like a manufacturer's label.
So now I have a bigger problem: remember I mentioned this bike being "growly"? It is, and it loses torque rather dramatically (in my opinion) at low RPM (below 2000) in a manner that other bikes I've ridden recently don't, and it seems to miss when running at around 2000 - 2500, constant speed, no load. I've dropped the thing a couple of times doing tight turns from a stop already. The dealer insists that there is nothing wrong, but both an experienced friend and the local Kawasaki dealer believe it's missing. The friend thinks I should just change the plugs and see what happens, and the dealer thinks it needs a carb clean, because it mostly sorts itself out at around 3000 - 3500. It never seems to have the smoothness of a Honda or any other Japanese engine, however, and I'm rather dissatisfied with the roughness. It seems to me that as the Connie has a development history of twenty years, and because it's based on the Ninja which was bordering on legendary, it should be smooth as silk, but this one definitely is not.
So the question is, "Did Kawasaki make a three cylinder Concours? with a spare pot?" ;-) Kidding of course!!
Bottom line: does the have Concours a rough, "English-sounding" engine, or should it be smooth like other Japanese bikes?
Thanks for all your valuable help on my re-entry into motorcycling, by the way.
-
That 1800 -2300 rpm missing is common to stock kawasaki jetting, and one of the things I've worked diligently to get rid of with my 2 minute mod jet kit.. HTH, Steve
-
Yes Steve, that helps a lot, though I wasn't happy to hear it's a common issue. I was planning on contacting you about the jet kit at the close of the riding season up here in Minnesota. it is likely to fix the saggy torque?
I was thinking about the 7th gear mod too, as the Connie is on the noisy side at 70 MPH, but I'm loath to compound my problem by raising the gearing if I can't get the pull-away torque back some other way.
What would your advice be?
-
everything i've done - carbs, jetting, cam sprocket, cams, etc, is all designed to increase lower rpm torque. There's a pile of guys riding with my 2 minute mod jetting and exhaust sprockets, they're the ones to ask, therwise I'm coming off like a cheesy commercial - :o Steve
-
Cleaning the carbs, getting the float levels right while you are in there and then syncing them properly would probably make a big improvement. That said, I have Steve's cam sprocket and jet kit and they deliver as advertised.
-
If you have other issues with your carbbies/ignition/valve train, Steve's jet kit, in and of itself, is not a cure all. I would highly suggest you send the carb bank to him when your off season hits(next week, right? ;) ;) ). And do watch for a pool of gas indicating something leaking, usually into the cylinder(s) if you do not have the fuel overflow protectors. Steve prides himself on his quick turnaround times, so you could burn up a week of not riding it to get the carbeuration squared away.
Also, these are Ninja heritage engines, they are meant to be revved. The main power band on a stock engine doesn't really come alive until north of 6k rpm. Steve's adjustments lower that quite a bit. Another issue on keeping the revs low, the oil pump is very anemic at about 1.5-2k rpm, maybe something like 15lbs of oil pressure. It does not hit 30lbs until 3k rpm. The consensus is to keep that engine over 3k under almost all conditions. Definitely avoid hard acceleration below 3-3.5k. She just doesn't have the oil pressure down low to protect everything when under a hard load. Spin that puppy, she likes it.
-
Next week, yes, pretty close :'(
Sigh... OK, SteveJ, this is going to be hard for me. I'm a sedate, quiet, 2000RPM kind of guy. I'm not sure I can count up to 3000. But I'll give it a try. North of 6k you say ?? This is going to take a culture shift for me. But I get the Ninja heritage part, and I totally understand under-lubrication: if anything will do it, that will certainly convince me to spin it harder.
Nobody as yet has thought that there are any other problems with it: it cranks, starts, and idles perfectly well, and as you predict it behaves decently at 3000 and above, so I don't suspect valves, cams, ignition, or anything major-mechanical.
OK, so when she comes back from the shop with clean carbs and a new set of plugs I'll treat her like I dream of treating the wife for the rest of the season and ship the naughty bits off to SISF when the snow falls.
6000RPM.... this is definitely going to raise eyebrows in my neighborhood... I wonder what it'll do to my love life...
-
There's a pile of guys riding with my 2 minute mod jetting and exhaust sprockets, they're the ones to ask, therwise I'm coming off like a cheesy commercial - Steve
Okay, time to start the endorsements! As far as turn around time for SISF, at least for the overflow tube installation, I sent my bowls to him earlier this year (USPS priority mail) on either a Monday or Tuesday. I had them back in my sticky lil' fingers either that Thursday or Friday. I live in Wisconsin BTW. Granted, this was back in maybe March and I certainly have no idea what his workload is now, but I'm certain you will get them back promptly and with exceptional results!
Other stuff you may want to look into are "stick coils" and a much beefier shift linkage from T-Cro. Neither are necessary, but certainly are worthwhile mods, especially the shift linkage. I didn't think it would make much difference, but boy was I wrong! It is wayyyyy better than the flimsy part Mama Kaw put on.
Also, have you pulled the plugs and inspected the plug wires by chance? Mine is an '05 and only had 11,xxx miles when I bought her in February of this year. Because I trailered mine home it got all full of salt. I hosed/washed it off and when I went to pull the plugs sometime later, I found the number 1 plug well partially full of water. This is common the way the tank/fairing/etc is laid out, even with the rubber plug covering the well.
I also found the metal in the plug boots were so corroded they wouldn't even snap onto the spark plug. This is common too. If you find this you can either get the aforementioned stick coils from T-Cro and get rid of the coils and old wires in one shot, or Murphs kits (another name you will certainly come to know by heart and excellent, reputable businessman) sells a replacement wire/boot kit.
Also, the jet mod SISF sells is certainly worth the $$. My next mod is going to be the exhaust cam sprocket from him, but will wait until winter or early spring so I can adjust the valves right away too. Ride on!! :thumbs:
-
Hi throb, thanks for that excellent advice. What part of Wisconsin? I commute from Elk River MN straight down 94/90 through Tomah to Rockford IL every week, so I cover a good portion of that fair state. I should also say that I lived in Racine for 14 1/2 years between Jan '83 and Sept '99, and Sheboygan for 2 ('87- '88, if memory serves). I have no idea what would possess a boy born and raised in West London to move to Sheboygan, but it must have seemed a good idea at the time.
So yes, those sound like excellent ideas. When I get my baby back this weekend I'll see what the shop did for me, then start plans for at least some of the aforementioned upgrades. I like the idea of SISF's "7th gear mod" and the accompanying jet mod, and the overflow mod. From that point I'll investigate the others.
I'll ask T-Cro to explain the stick coils, that isn't clear to me yet; is it an ignition coil replacement?. The shift linkage seems obvious enough. I'll look into "Murph" - I don't think I've heard that name yet.
You've and the others have given me some excellent ideas; I'm going to capture the posts into a separate file for reference, then I can review the ideas later as I plan my winter and upgrade expenditure on the bike.
-
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=61.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=61.0)
No need to look very far....here are pics of the stick coils. They are coils/plug caps all in one which most new vehicles come with nowadays. The cylindrical coils on the bike are eliminated completely.
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1&osCsid=6db5d241eb223acdc8bcfba8c486e081 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1&osCsid=6db5d241eb223acdc8bcfba8c486e081)
Here's a link to Murph's site. Get the credit card ready! 8)
I live in the Sheboygan area myself, moved here in '87.
-
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=67.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=67.0)
And here's for T-Cro's shift linkage. It's all in the "For Sale" section of this website....
-
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=67.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=67.0)
And here's for T-Cro's shift linkage. It's all in the "For Sale" section of this website....
The "For Sale" section of this very website: of course, what did I expect? "Duh", followed by sound of palm slapping forehead...
-
Julianop, just to kinda follow up on the rpm thing. As long as you keep her mostly over 3k, she's fine. When you want some power, down shift for some rpms and let er go. Assuming you don't have the 7th gear, your engine is turning about 4500 at 75. It will do that all day long, day after day. Don't be afraid to drop a couple or three gears at 60 mph for some right hand wrist exercises on the throttle. It's "accelerating", pun intended. A decent shift point for "spirited", not full acceleration might be in the 7.5 to 9k range, full on, spin to about 9.5-10k. I would not advise getting too carried away in the land of cheese, however. I hear the fines are quite ugly over there. :yikes: The above recommendations are based on a fully warmed engine, say after 5-10 miles of running, to get the oil fully warmed up.
Once you do some of SiSF's magic, you will not have to reach as far in the rpms, but it is still fun to do.
Do try to hook up with some of the locals up there. Some really good, smart, and helpful people.
That sort of rough, uneven running, (the carbbies are in transition at about 2-2.5k) will clear up immensely once SiSF magic is applied. It will run a lot nicer in parking lots and other slow speed stuff.
-
Thanks for the detail, SteveJ.
Yes, I know all about fines in Wisconsin - in my earlier days I got so many speeding tickets (driving my grotty old Bronco II) between Racine and Sheboygan before I moved up there, in fact) that I actually got suspended for three months.
I hadn't actually mentioned this before, but I might as well now: the reason I needed good low speed stability so badly was that I was practicing for my Minnesota motorcycle license - I haven't had my two wheel license since I was in the UK, thirty five years ago. The Connie was brand new to me, rougher and more sluggish at low speed than I anticipated it would be, and I failed my test first time after dropping the poor old girl twice on each side practicing for it. It was very frustrating, never having dropped a bike before. So she went back to the shop, and they took pity and loaned me a BMW F800ST to take my test on. It was much smoother, of course, I passed my test this past Monday. I'll get the Connie back this weekend. If the carb job and new plugs doesn't make it any better I get to pay the bill, if it does, they do. I really want a smoother bike at low RPM, because at my age I just don't need or want a rip-snorter, so I will most certainly get the 7th gear and jet mods done when the season ends. It's not that I'm suffering buyer's remorse just yet, but I'm just mad that I didn't pay more attention to this before I bought it.
Thanks again for the detail - it will help a lot when I get reacquainted with her this weekend.
-
Okay, time to start the endorsements!
After installing SISF's 2 minute carb mod and exhaust gear, the low RPM irritations went away and were replaced by a very noticeable torque improvement - perfect for the 7th gear upgrade. A really good carb cleaning, mixture adjustment and syncing got the idle smooth as silk down to 500 RPM. (I did the stick coil thing too)
-
Robin, wait til you get the cams in there, the engine will be like a tractor at lower rpms. super nice when in traffic / parking lots, etc...
Julianop, not scolding, but WHY would you bring the bike to the shop? in all seriousness, they cannot duplicate the low rpm torque I can pull out of a concours, and everyone with my stuff will support that. I'm not trying to be a commercial, but your issues are what I've specifically targeted. The dealership can't do better than kawasaki did as they're going back to stock condition. I'm sure it'll run better when you get it back if they do a decent job, but no matter what, my stuff still would make it run even better than that. Not bragging, but certainly confident. Steve
-
After installing SISF's 2 minute carb mod and exhaust gear, the low RPM irritations went away and were replaced by a very noticeable torque improvement - perfect for the 7th gear upgrade. A really good carb cleaning, mixture adjustment and syncing got the idle smooth as silk down to 500 RPM. (I did the stick coil thing too)
Same here. Great combo!!
-
Julianop, I hafta agree with the others on the Low End Improvements you get from Steves Mods. He has put a lot of thought into his mods.
I have the Ex Sprocket and the Cams. In my case I went with the Power Grind (ZX Cams).
With Steves special grind (on ZX Cams) I got Improved Low end and mid range, plus it gives me a bit on the top...
Love the overall power the bike makes.
Last week I received a 2 min mod kit from Steve (this Kit is made to work with these cams)
Haven't installed it yet. But, As soon as I get the time,,, (and my garage cools enough that I can stand to be in it) it's gonna happen.
NOTE: After reading the discussion, I question you installing the 7th gear unit immediately.
The 7th gear unit is a good idea that is primarily built to lower rpm's while cruising. As a result it will slightly decrease your available low end.
I suggest that you (first) do the carbs etc and see how you like things.
After you are happy with the bike, (then) look into adding the 7th gear unit.
Ride safe, Ted
-
+10 on SISF mods. He has engineered the "wow" factor
-
Gitbox: 500 RPM you say? Now that's my kinda language - take a zero off the 5000 ;-)
Mettler1, Buzzcut: Thanks for your additional accolades on SISF's mods. I'm definitely going to do it. I'll tell more story in a moment that'll really explain why ...
Connie_rider: Yep, it's that low end performance I really want. I'll take your advice on adding the 7th gear mod later - that makes me more comfortable, as I already have a low end torque problem, and want to make sure I put one foot firmly on the floor, torque-wise, before I lift up the other one. I definitely do want to reduce RPMs during cruise - bloody thing made my hands numb on the drive down from Minnesota to Illinois this weekend - but one thing at a time, I say.
SISF: I am totally convinced you're right about taking the bike back to the shop, and your comment comes at the perfect time; here's why:
I took the bike back to the shop for them to look at it; the salesman didn't think there was anything wrong with it but took it in for them to look at for the week. They lent me the BMW F800ST for the week and to take my MN test on, as I spoke about earlier. I went in on Saturday to pick up my bike and they hadn't even started working on it... While I was there I test drove an old BMW R1100R for fun and comparison. I took the Connie back and drove it down from Minnesota to Illinois: it was miserable at anything less than highway speed compared to the R1100, the F800, and a Honda ST1300 I'd tried a couple of weeks ago. Fully realizing that those are (with no desire to offend anybody) a different price-point and class of vehicle, my Connie could not, in anyone's imagination, represent 20 years of engineering evolution !!
I'm not happy with this bike, though I realize it has potential. I could take it back to the dealer, take a beating on money, and buy something else, or I could pay you to make my pain go away. "In traffic and parking lots": that's exactly where the problem is, and it's dreadful.
So Steve, can I talk to you via PM or even better, by phone, to discuss options, details, prices, and logistics? I have my account here set up to accept PM; please let me know when we can chat.
-
Contact email for SiSF:
Shoodaben Engineering
How to Contact Me
My business is located in Central Florida and I travel to many of the regional Concours Owner's Group events. The best way to reach me is by email. I will reply to your email as soon as possible. Be sure to tell me what year and model motorcycle you have and include your phone number and best time to call you if you want a call back.
Steve@shoodabenengineering.com
Happy Farkling!
SteveJ.
-
Julianop, I'll pm my phone # - thanks, Steve
-
Julianop,
Don't get to discouraged with the bike yet. My bike ran the way you described your's as running when I first got it too.
I got it in Sept. 08 and put 1500 miles on it before putting it away for the winter. Over the winter I bought SISF's exhaust cam sprocket, jet kit and 7th gear mod. (most of my ridding is commuting on the highway)
In the spring after all the mod's the bike was a different animal. The difference the 7th gear mod makes is incredable. With the jet kit and the ex cam sprocket I don't notice any problem with the taller gearing at all on start off, I only notice the taller gearing when I realize I don't have to shift as often, or as quickly when getting up to speed and I'm one who also likes the lower end of the RPM range when casual riding.
My sugjestion (spell) to you would be to search both of the concours sites for how to reduce the buzz in the grips and look into those things now while your still riding. Also check to see if you can find out when the last valve adjust was. If the bike needs a valve adjust it's a great time to add SISF's ex cam sprocket, or for more low end improvement, SISF's torque cams.
I'll be looking to swap cams for the torque cam's at my next valve adjust. And SISF's 2 min. mod jet kit will change your bike from the stuttering brit bike you feel now, to the smooth as silk jap bike that you thought you bought.
Just my 2 cents
Joe
-
Thanks turbojoe78,
Things are looking up already: I heard angels sing when I had a phone conversation with SiSF today. He told me a whole lot of good things, including (as you've indicated) 1. I'm not alone in my liking for the bike as whole but need for torque and stability at lower RPM; and 2. it's fixable - just give him my carbs and my checkbook ;-)
On taking to Steve I think I'll bypass the sprocket and go straight to the cams and jet kit, because I get the low-end torque AND a quieter motor into the bargain, which I also really want. Once I've done that and got used to the bike again I'll go to the 7th gear mod. I'm not made of money, you know - getting the wife to accept the cost of the bike in the first place was tough enough for a while ;-)
Once I've done that I'll look into de-buzzing the grips if I still need to. For the fall months I'm probably going to need some thicker gloves than my current summer meshes anyway, and that will hopefully put off the need a little.
Good point about a valve adjustment check. The OO/PO is a COG member, and is local to me, so I can get in touch with him and find out some of the history of the machine. I joined COG this evening (literally, just before answering your post), so I have access to even more good opinions.
Thanks again for the reassurance, I do think things will improve: on advice received the other day I took her out and spanked her just a little bit, taking the RPM over the 6000 mark, and that seems to have loosened her up a little. Steve assured me - and I've had plenty of accolades to affirm - that the aforementioned mods will make a big difference; I just have to wait till the end of the riding season so I can bear to take her off the road!
-
If you are looking for an inexpensive but effective fix to help with the handlebar buzz, here are a couple suggestions. 1: What I did; http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2656.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2656.0)
It makes a noticeable improvement for about $8 and 20 minutes of your time. No, it won't take all the buzz away, but nothing you are going to do with an inline 4 motor is going to!
2: Haven't tryed this but seems like a good idea; http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1850.msg23563#msg23563 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1850.msg23563#msg23563)
-
Hi again Julianop, with the cooler weather just around the corner, and with your long commute, you may wanna make Murphs' a bit more successful and get yourself some heater for the grips iff'n you don't have 'em. They really are a life saver on longer rides.
-
Welcome.
Your experience parallels mine for the first couple of months... It is a pig in a parking lot, and will go on over if you give it half a chance...Maybe even a quarter chance!
Love it now. It is a highly customizable bike... there isn't much for 16 inch rear rubber anymore... leading to:
17 inch rear wheel mod, 17inch front wheel transplants, better brake transplants, fork transplants, tipover bars...
OMG does it end?
Good news is I do all my own work, and enjoy it, something I can't say about any ride since my 67 vw beetle....
KenE
-
SteveJ, I have heated grips already - it's one of the reasons I bought this particular bike - but I'll certainly be looking at Murph's for other farkles once I get some pocket money to spend. I knew I would need them, and actually had cause to use them two weeks ago on my first ride down from MN to IL - nice !!!.
Actually, what seems to be the problem right now - as the evenings are getting "crisper", shall we say - is wind at the back of my neck. Apparently the Rifle shield, while providing really nice, smooth air at the front, stops too far ahead of my head, so the vortex whips round and wacks me in the back of the neck. It gets nasty at around 55F. I have purchased an Under Armor "Neck Gator", which I can tuck up under the back of my helmet as a band-aid, but according to experts (and this is a shameless invitation for more opinion and experience!) the Cee Bailey shield is a lot better in this regard.
KenE, yes indeed, I like your description, it is indeed a pig in the parking lot. As I said earlier, she is tall and squirrelly at a standstill; the darn thing took me down six times while I was practicing for my Minnesota road test, and I promise you I used worse words than "pig" when that happened. The wheel size never occurred to me, however, as I haven't needed to start thinking about tires yet, so I'll look into the 17 inch world next spring.
In vain attempts to try to minimize this poor low speed performance before I tear it down at end of season and send the carbs off to SiSF for rejetting, I've run a can of Sea Foam and one of Iso-Heet through to deal with possible gunk and water, respectively. There has been a little performance improvement; though while it did nothing significant at low RPM, the mid range performance certainly has benefited: now she grumbles and chugs and growls up to around 2400, then, as if I'd thrown a switch, takes off like a raped ape to 4000 and beyond, if allowed to do so. It's quite ... exhilarating ;-)
But no, it doesn't end, does it? I'll have to start doing my own work too, just to make economic sense, given my long commute.
After a carb/cam upgrade, a windshield swap, the next thing will probably be a real cruise control. I have a simple throttle lock already, but that really isn't much good on the hills on my commute from MN to IL, which takes me over the hills in west Wisconsin. maybe the team here can offer opinions/recommendations on that too?
-
After a carb/cam upgrade, a windshield swap, the next thing will probably be a real cruise control. I have a simple throttle lock already, but that really isn't much good on the hills on my commute from MN to IL, which takes me over the hills in west Wisconsin. maybe the team here can offer opinions/recommendations on that too?
Why, Murphs', of course. Linky:
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=422 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=422)
now she grumbles and chugs and growls up to around 2400, then, as if I'd thrown a switch, takes off like a raped ape to 4000 and beyond, if allowed to do so. It's quite ... exhilarating ;-)
Indicative of low speed circuit being messed up. Acceleration is exhilarating. Let her go...
-
it is indeed a pig in the parking lot. As I said earlier, she is tall and squirrelly at a standstill; the darn thing took me down six times
With no intention of hijacking this thread, unless I am pedalling Connie backwards, I really don't find her top heavy at all and very well balanced at crawling speeds or coming to rest at stop signs/lights. It's all a matter of coordination between rear brake, clutch and throttle of course, but I've had bikes much worse than this! Again, the caveat to this is pedalling it backwards if your foot slips out from under you; then you fully realize Connies 650lbs!
-
SteveJ: duh, of course :-) I'll go directly to Murph's, not passing "Go", and see what you're pointing me at.
Throb: I don't think you could possibly hijack this rambling thread that started off with my toying with the idea of buying a Connie and not being able to count to six, then evolved into my grumbling about low speed behavior and discussion of performance improvements, and has since wandered all over hell and back with no promise of dying, with my shamelessly soliciting opinion, comment, experience and wisdom all along the way. I've probably broken every rule about starting new threads for different topics, and I've sort of made this own little private discussion thread, with the tacit approval - or at least courteous tolerance and a smattering of indulgent amusement - of all you wise old dogs.
To your point, though, I'm a lot better with the Connie now than I was at the beginning: I think it's a mixture of things including my improved familiarity with the balance of the bike, getting the cobwebs out of my riding skills in general, my rapidly improved physical strength gained from my handling a big bike, a slight improvement in real low-speed performance from its having been driven consistently, and the simple fact that I'm not practicing for a test, and doing all my work at below 15 mph.
Last night, for example, I did my weekly drive from Minneapolis to Rockford - a 360 mile trip - and did it in 5 1/2 hours including a thirty minute stop at Tomah to put the liners in my jacket. I won't say how fast I rode, but you can do the math: from that average speed of 72mph, and noting that there were easily twenty five miles of road works and county roads on my journey, let's just say I wasn't hanging around ;-)
My stops and starts are a lot better now, too: I can reliably and cleanly do it the recommended way: ("complete the stop using both brakes - i.e. with the right foot on footbrake, left foot down at the moment of stop (not before), followed by the right") at least 90% of the time. My starts are no longer accompanied by that inelegant, frantic wiggling and fierce steering to find balance. Yes, she's tall and heavy, but I'm in command now.
All this doesn't mean I'm not going to get the jetting and cam upgrade, though: my hands are still numb this morning after the high-revving 360 mile trip last night, and I really don't want lasting nerve damage.
-
Swapped the spark plugs last night. Found plug #1 lead was not making proper contact - screwed the plug cap on properly. Definite improvement in low speed torque when pulling away, but still shows problems of improper carburation at below 2400RPM, especially when low load/constant speed, as is typical.
Can anyone point me to graphical info on how to remove the carb block? T-Cro, I think you said a while back you had a workshop manual and micro-fiche on DVD; is there something I can beg/borrow/leach/steal that'll get me what I need?
-
Can anyone point me to graphical info on how to remove the carb block? T-Cro, I think you said a while back you had a workshop manual and micro-fiche on DVD; is there something I can beg/borrow/leach/steal that'll get me what I need?
http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/clubstatic.cfm?clubID=1328&pubmenuoptID=30890 (http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/clubstatic.cfm?clubID=1328&pubmenuoptID=30890)
-
Thanks, jklhill, that'll do nicely.
I took the bike out for a spin at midday today. The low end pulling performance certainly is significantly better with new plugs and all four pots cooking (repaired plug wire). I can pull away and take slow corners with much more confidence now, and when I pulled away from a stop directly into a left turn at a T junction I darn near pulled the front wheel off the ground it was so powerful. The steady state at around 50MPH - around 3000 RPM - is also much smoother; it hums now, rather than growls - just what I'd expect from a Japanese four cylinder engine. Now I finally understand why you folks like the Connie so much.
Finally, I brought the idle up to just under 1000, as it still dies occasionally when dropping to idle at a stop or a corner, but a carb clean and re-jetting will fix that, I'm sure.
So instead of a five-speed Connie, it seems that all this time I had a three cylinder Connie :-)
-
.... I brought the idle up to just under 1000, as it still dies occasionally when dropping to idle at a stop or a corner, but a carb clean and re-jetting will fix that, I'm sure.
So instead of a five-speed Connie, it seems that all this time I had a three cylinder Connie :-)
Put your idle back up to 1,050 to 1,100 where is it supposed to be set at.......
BTW With enough RPM 2nd gear wheel lifts are not out of the question either!
-
Glad to hear things are going better, it had to be a bit unnerving to have bought a bike that wasn't working out. It'll feel like second nature after you put a 100,000 more miles on it. :thumbs:
And don't sweat the meandering thread, folks ain't very anal here, that's why I like the "feel" of this forum. :thumbs: :thumbs:
And yeah, get that idle a touch over 1000.
-
Idle to 1050, yes sir. It was lower than 800 even before the plug change, so you can imagine how it behaved, trying to get it out of that hole every time. I didn't think it was right. I really should learn to trust my instincts - thirty five years in engineering should have learned me something!
Wheel lifts in second ? Yup, with what I experienced today, I believe it. In a week or so I'll be trying it .... yeah, right ;-)
Thread - good to hear it's OK. The way I figure it, with the same thread name folks at least know my history and what this is all about; though as I said, with last night's experience I almost want to rename it "three cylinder Connie", 'cos that's pretty much what I had up until last night.
Yes, it was dead scary - I thought I'd made a big mistake. So much so - especially after the dealer told me "that's normal for a Concours" - that I was about to take it back and take a $1200 hit to swap it for a 2003 BMW R1150RT that showed up the week after I bought the Connie. Now I'm not so sure. With Steve's jet and cam fix followed by a 7th gear mod, I think this bike is going to be excellent. 100,000 miles? Well with this commute between MN and IL it only took three years to put 160,000 on my car, so that's not out of the question. I've already put 2200 on it, and I'm barely getting started with the commute.
Sorry to hit this one again, but I'm looking for suggestions on the cold-air-at-the-back-of-the-neck problem. It's going to be cold up here pretty soon, and I need to do something quick. I think somebody said the Cee Bailey shield would cure all my ills, but I'm not sure I can swing the money this side of winter, especially as I've got to pay for the carb/cam upgrade. Is there any recommended head gear that will go under the helmet that might help?
-
Hi Julian,
I just caught up on your saga. It took me a little bit to realize you and the fellow I spoke to on the phone were one and the same....... I tend to spend more time on the other forum site than this one and have fallen behind in my threads.
For the back of your neck....try this, it makes a huge difference. http://www.aerostich.com/power-dry-balaclava.html (http://www.aerostich.com/power-dry-balaclava.html)
Let me know when you are up here on the bike and we can connect.
Brian
-
Hi Brian,
Yes it's me, and it was Steve in Sunny Florida who gave me your contact info and a recommendation.
I'll be riding up this Friday, and if I remember correctly we had tentatively agreed to meet this weekend so you could tell me if I'm imagining things or if my bike is indeed running rough, and what I should do about it.
Re: the balaclava, you're saying the cheapest one on that Aerostich page is the best bet? That's a first - I'd have expected to have to buy the most expensive one.
Thanks for connecting here on zggtr. These guys have been magnificent: but for them I'd have driven my bike back to the dealer and delivered it through the showroom window by now!
I'll call you Friday to check schedules.
Julian.
Oh by the way: I can't wait to get my COG membership number sent to me so I can register six times on the Connie Droppers' list :-(
-
Re: the balaclava, you're saying the cheapest one on that Aerostich page is the best bet? That's a first - I'd have expected to have to buy the most expensive one.
Not sure that is the best one necessarily. I just put it up as an example. I have a very thin similar model that I use in colder weather and it helps a lot. Just keeping the breeze off seems to do the trick. I also have a Warm n Safe electric liner and gloves that do wonders when it's cold out.
Talk to you on Friday.
-
On the balaclava thing, cruise on over to Bob's Cycle Supply in Little Canada, they are on the north frontage road of Hwy 36, just east of Rice St. Check this one out, looks like the cat's meow.
http://www.bobscycle.com/browse.cfm/4,46460.html (http://www.bobscycle.com/browse.cfm/4,46460.html)
Nice folks, decent pricing, I've done business with them on and off for 30+ years.
They should have several different styles to check out live and in person, instead of mail order or riding up to Duluth. Andy of Rider Wearhouse/Aerostich is quite proud of most of his merchandise, if you know what I mean.
You'd best hurry, it's a bit nipple-y up there I see. Are the lakes frozen yet? :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
-
Thanks for this suggestion, SteveJ, but there's one problem with your suggested balaclava, which is similar to several balaclavas I've seen at my local store: that Lycra back panel. The back is exactly where I want the insulation. My problem is vortex wind whipping round and hitting me on the back of the head, not direct air from the front. At 55F my entire body is warm except for the back of my neck - just around the helmet line - which is in a blast of cold air. The back of the neck has very little natural insulation, and has blood vessels close to the skin, so it cools quickly.
I'll see what else they have, though.
-
Ha - I just read that it was running on 3 cyls all along. I've had conversations with other connie owners about this exact thing - guys who have poorly running bikes, but really don't know what a good running connie can do because "it's always been that way" . Based on the carbs I see, there's alot of cruddy running bikes out there. I'm glad yours is coming along, now you're starting to "get" why many of think this is a great bike, especially for the money they can be bought for - steve
-
Ha - I just read that it was running on 3 cyls all along. I've had conversations with other connie owners about this exact thing - guys who have poorly running bikes, but really don't know what a good running connie can do because "it's always been that way" . Based on the carbs I see, there's alot of cruddy running bikes out there.
Yep, there's comfort in numbers: if I'm suffering, I'm in good company ;-)
You'll be getting the carb bank soon to perform your magic.
-
Hey guys, I want to run my carbs past the local Kawasaki dealer for a quick clean before I send them south to visit Steve for the winter (!). How long should it take for a couple of reasonably competent guys to pull them out, approximately?
-
Hey guys, I want to run my carbs past the local Kawasaki dealer for a quick clean before I send them south to visit Steve for the winter (!). How long should it take for a couple of reasonably competent guys to pull them out, approximately?
Why? I mean...why run them by the local Kawasaki dealer? I don't understand...
-
Removing the carbs is very easy & shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes, and that is after taking a break for a couple of beers. Now putting the rack back in ... now that's a whole other world. There are quite a few posts around on a few tricks getting the boots lined up and those dreaded springs. Start practicing your cussing now.
Have fun,
-Ken-
-
Hey guys, I want to run my carbs past the local Kawasaki dealer for a quick clean before I send them south to visit Steve for the winter
Do you enjoy throwing money away? Steve will clean your carbs why pay someone for something that he will be doing!
As to time for pulling the carbs? One hour....... Give or take a beer or four!
-
Do you enjoy throwing money away? Steve will clean your carbs why pay someone for something that he will be doing!
As to time for pulling the carbs? One hour....... Give or take a beer or four!
Exactly! Let Steve see what's been going on in those suckers so he can address any issues he finds...
-
Exactly! Let Steve see what's been going on in those suckers so he can address any issues he finds...
A very convincing argument! But I see my comment was confusing. I didn't mean I'd take 'em out, clean 'em, then immediately send them to Steve. I agree, that would be nuts. The deal is that we're going to get a final few nice days here before the end of the season, and I'd like to enjoy them riding the bike rather than staring at big holes where the carburetors were. The other part is that I don't have the cash to pay Steve for his magic yet - that'll have to wait for the winter months. So I thought I'd give them a clean up here so I'd at least get something half decent for the rest of the season, then send 'em to Steve when there's snow on the ground.
Meh, you're right: I've driven the blessed thing on three cylinders below 2500 RPM for the past six weeks, I might as well wait till the midwest season is over, and get the job done once, and properly.
You've convinced me :-) But be careful Tony: St. Joseph is only around the corner from Rockford - much closer than Minnesota; I might just arrive on your doorstep with the bike and a twelve pack and convince you to pull them out for me ;) ;D
-
You've convinced me :-) But be careful Tony: St. Joseph is only around the corner from Rockford - much closer than Minnesota; I might just arrive on your doorstep with the bike and a twelve pack and convince you to pull them out for me ;) ;D
You just show up with a 12 pack of Leinenkugels anytime you want between the dates of Oct 15th and the 22nd and we will get right to that......... ;)
BTW would you mind checking in on my dogs? I'll be back on the 23rd from Las Vegas! 8)
-
Meh, you're right: I've driven the blessed thing on three cylinders below 2500 RPM for the past six weeks
You shouldn't be spinning the engine that slow while riding anyway. ;D
-
You shouldn't be spinning the engine that slow while riding anyway. ;D
Out on the highway I can see that, but around town and in traffic?
I love this machine when I pass the 65 speed limit sign and I give it the old "right hand down a bit". It'll yank my hands right out of my gloves and sit me right up on the passenger seat against the top box- I get all tingly just thinking about it... I just don't feel comfortable crawling past the Happy Days Retirement Center at 25 mph, 3000 RPM and 100db. It's noisy, too torquey, bad tempered and erratic.
You're joking, right?
Maybe once I get these bloody carbs cleaned out and sync'd up, and I can afford the jet and cam kit, all these problems will go away.
Talking of which, I take it there's general consensus on the Morgan Carbtune Pro ??
-
Not really a joke. I believe Bergman that did a a ton of dyno testing and found that the Connie maintains horrible oil pressure under the 3K mark
-
There's no problem running low rpm IF you're using very light throttle, and just tooling around. What you don't want to do is to do hard throttle accellerations from very low rpm. HTH, steve
-
Don't get the Motion Pro sync tool. I have it and hate it.
-
Don't get the Motion Pro sync tool. I have it and hate it.
This thread has gone in so many different directions I dont think there is a way to hi-jack it :o
What dont you like about the Motion Pro?
-
I have the motion pro. works great. Steve
-
This thread has gone in so many different directions I dont think there is a way to hi-jack it :o
What dont you like about the Motion Pro?
No indeed, and I have already acknowledged y'all for your patience and indulgence on that very issue :-)
I'd like to know what's wrong with the Motion Pro too...
There's no problem running low rpm IF you're using very light throttle, and just tooling around. What you don't want to do is to do hard throttle accellerations from very low rpm. HTH, steve
That's what I'd hoped. I will remark, casually, and not to incriminate myself (!) that I'd noticed since wiring up the #1 cylinder that it does actually pull a lot harder from "down there" than it did when I first got the bike. But I don't inhale...
So... the 7th gear mod ... isn't that going to exacerbate the oil problem? And how popular/advisable is an aftermarket oil pressure gauge, given that situation?
Crikey, we are going all over the place, aren't we? It's like my own private thread...
-
Well, since you asked...
I've lost the fluid in it twice - not really sure how. It constantly gets bubbles in the fluid. The calibrated fluid height is only accurate at exactly the point you set it. In other words if you have vacuum on all four tubes simultaneously and set the fluid heights even, just a slight increase or decrease in vacuum throws the fluid levels all over the place - they don't remain even.
The fluid is a pretty blue though.
-
Well, since you asked...
I've lost the fluid in it twice - not really sure how. It constantly gets bubbles in the fluid. The calibrated fluid height is only accurate at exactly the point you set it. In other words if you have vacuum on all four tubes simultaneously and set the fluid heights even, just a slight increase or decrease in vacuum throws the fluid levels all over the place - they don't remain even.
The fluid is a pretty blue though.
Makes ya long for the old mercury tubes as they were stable due to the weight of the quick silver.
-
robin, you need more time with it. they work fine. They are to be calibrated prior to each use, so that pretty much insures good readings.
As far as the 7th gear "exacerbating the oil problem" well, there is no oil problem, and the gearing doesn't exacebate it - the riders gear selection is the key here. You can't ride an inline 4 at the rpms designated for a v twin. learn that, and all's well. Keep in mind what I stated earlier, that the issue isn't low rpm riding, it's giving hard throttle at very low rpm's and lugging the engine. HTH, steve
-
So... the 7th gear mod ... isn't that going to exacerbate the oil problem? And how popular/advisable is an aftermarket oil pressure gauge, given that situation?
Exacerbate what oil problem? While the engine does not develop a lot of oil pressure once up to full operating temps it develops more than enough to hold the oil wedge. It's not good for ANY engine to be lugged (ultra low RPM while trying to maintain slow speeds) this motor included. If you think your lugging the engine drop one gear and pick up the RPM's.......... If you want an Oil Pressure Gauge install one (I did and never look at it after start up) they are nice to have but should make little to no difference in how the bike/engine is treated. Not to sound rude here but you are making more out of this than need be; I'll say it again DROP a GEAR AND RIDE THE BIKE....
-
Steve, Tony,
I didn't mean to imply it was the bike's problem - I realize it's MY problem with my desire for low RPM.
I was out at a get-together of our local club, and spoke to one of the old-timer guys about this. He listened to the bike and gave a supporting opinion that the problem was carburation. He also said the same thing you two have about RPMs: drop a gear or two, keep the RPMs up and damn the neighbors! That's simply the design of the bike.
I think what's going on is that I'm unwittingly compensating for the carburation problem by keeping the revs low where the torque is low and before the engine goes through it's "warp shift" as different jets come into play. While doing that largely avoids the jittery problem, it is doing the bike no good.
Steve, I'll send the carbs down to you as soon as I can afford to, but as I want the cam kit as well, and based on our phone conversation, there's no point in my doing it twice.
On losing fluid in the Motion Pros I watched their video on using it, and read some comments on the web: a larger engine you suck some of the fluid right out of the tubes if the air gap at the bottom is too big and the level is set too high, and especially "don't blip the engine".
But the Morgans have steel rods in the tubes, no fluid, damps the pulses really nicely. What say you about them?
-
On the carbs - if you're planning on doing the cams, I can do the carbs first, set up for the cams. It's not the same jetting as the 2 minute mod jetting for the stock cams, but with a little less foam it'll work fine, and you'll be ready for the cams.
I think you shouldn't be placing alot of stock in how the bike runs now, because it's pretty sick. It's going to be a HUGE change when you ride it running properly. Steve
-
That's good news (that I can do it in two stages), Steve. I want to get some sense of achievement before he season ends.
I've left you a phone message...
-
Well chaps, I took your collective advice and did the smart thing: I bypassed my local greasy wrench and shipped my carbs to Florida for surgery under the skilled knife of Dr. Steve.
Here it would have been $100 for an overnight stay, but all he'd have done would be to pull the bowls, clean out what is accessible, and put in an O-ring kit.
Let me ask this question once again: would any of you advocate my purchasing the Morgan Carbtune Pro for carb balancing ? I like the idea of the steel "bullets" the Carbtune has rather than fluid of the Motion Pro.
-
There are some very effective home brew devices that can be used to balance your carbs. Done properly they can eliminate the possibility of sucking fluid into your carbs.
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_I_synchronize_the_carburetors%3F (http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_I_synchronize_the_carburetors%3F)
Look about 1/2 way down the page. I chose another route that did away with liquids altogether.
I'm not saying your commercial choices are bad. I'm just saying there are frugal effective alternatives.
-
Frugal is good. I have to give all this month's pocket money to SISF, so I'm happy to throw something together myself. I keep tropical fish, so I'm fully adept with pipe and bottles.
So I'll bite: what's your fluid-free method, jworth?
-
Those in favor of the Carbtune http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2327.msg26753#msg26753 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2327.msg26753#msg26753)
-
Windsor eh???
I'm a Hounslow boy - not far away from you :-)
Well Hanworth, actually, just east of Feltham. Spent many a happy hour wandering around Crane Park. Used to go in to Twickenham on a Saturday morning on ... what was it, the 92b? something like that... to go to the pictures... the memory fades, of course.
Of course, I've been in Minneapolis Minnesota, USA, now, for 13 years, and 16 years in Racine, Wisconsin before that...
I'll try the homebrew solution as soon as I get the carbs back from Steve in Sunny Florida, and post results.
-
I love my Morgan Carbtune.
Fast shipping, works great. I got the case also, case is very nice.
-
Thanks AZ, that's exactly what I heard a hundred times, so one should arrive in my mailbox early next week.
Tell me, did you (or anyone else, for that matter) ever question and/or test the relative calibration across the sticks - say, swap the tubes or connect them altogether on the same carb to see if they all show the same level? I saw during my Internet research on the Morgan that a couple of folk suspected that the calibration was off - showing different levels even when connected together - which would of course negate the accuracy and effectivity of the device.
-
I personally push the Twin-Max electric tuner on everyone that asks, simply because it overshines anything on the market when comparing 2 sources, which is what you are doing on a bank of carbs. you are actually synching 1 to 2, 4 to 3, and finally 3 to 2.
I feel that there is no gage on the market that is identical between 4 completely different gage sections, therefore any 4 circuit gage has shortcomings.
as for the twin_max, I have no problem synching with the fuel in the float bowls with the tank off... The accuracy and finite adjustment of sensitivity on the gage is outragiously superior.
I have placed the Morgan "inline" with my Twin-max and shown people this fact.
same price, just a better product.
jmho/ymmv
-
Thanks AZ, that's exactly what I heard a hundred times, so one should arrive in my mailbox early next week.
Tell me, did you (or anyone else, for that matter) ever question and/or test the relative calibration across the sticks - say, swap the tubes or connect them altogether on the same carb to see if they all show the same level? I saw during my Internet research on the Morgan that a couple of folk suspected that the calibration was off - showing different levels even when connected together - which would of course negate the accuracy and effectivity of the device.
Nope. Didn't even need one for years. When I bought the Connie, it was the first I'd learned of the demise of the mercury carb sticks.
-
M.O.B. I get your point - it is very valid.
Actually you've got me thinking of a pet project I conceived based on my early thoughts along those very lines (the implicit inaccuracies in a 2/4 channel mechanical system vs the implicit accuracy and adjustable sensitivity and filtering ability of a direct differential electronic system). I was thinking of designing an installable 4 panel-mount channel electronic balance indicator. It would be the first step toward a more capable engine health monitoring system.
I'm an electronic systems engineer by trade, and have a decade in avionics, so I'm very familiar with electronic measurement of air pressure - glass cockpit altimeters and engine control systems use it. It occurred to me that I could design a system that electronically measures and monitors the pressure of all four intakes during all phases of operation and displays that on a compact graphical, digital display. I think I'll open up discussion on this subject in a separate thread, and get some opinions on usefulness and practicality.
Meanwhile, of course, I've put my money on the Morgan Carbtune, and it won't hurt me to gain some experience with that device before I presume to design a fancy replacement.
-
it's hard enough making people keep track of the road and riding safely, adding a new dash mounted farkle for folks to look at (can't adjust the carbs while riding so it's just another set of gages to look at) might be a dangerous and distracting thing... ;D
once you synch the carbs, it's a bit moot, and yo shouldn't have to be monitoring constantly....cause they ain't gonna change....if they did, you'd feel it for sure, before seeing it on a gage. ;)
but inventions are cool.... ;D ;D ;D
-
Again, a very valid argument. Maybe not worth my effort then... darn, it would have been a fun project ;-)
Is that true, though? Do carbs really stay sufficiently in sync, once adjusted, that periodic checking and readjustment is not worthwhile? I had heard about one guy who rechecks his every oil change.
Part of my thinking on the panel gauge is that vacuum pressure is - in the car world, anyway - a relative indicator of power. On a four-barrel, four-carb engine there's the added complexity of effects of imbalance, so some kind of indication might be a helpful diagnostic.
Alternatively, a single indication of "imbalance" set at, say, 2mmHg, might still be helpful. Such a light would blip and flash during acceleration, etc, but it would still be a helpful - though less distracting - indicator.
-
That makes me think of pilots I used to deal with when I was an aircraft mechanic. Give them a single-point EGT (Exhaust Gas Temp) system and they were relatively happy to have something to play with on long flights. Give them a 6-point CHT/EGT engine analyzer and they would be in the shop every day whining about something being “off”. “At 75% power, #2 cylinder is 21 degrees cooler but at 82% power, #4 is hotter than #6 by 11 degrees, but the CHT is 8.5 degrees cooler, but my total fuel flow is high by .00326 GPH, and I’m SURE it’s running rough because….”
Geez.
I agree with MOB, you’d spend so much time worrying about your carb data, you’d forget to ride the bike. And I suspect your "imbalance" light would drive you nuts, since the relative vacuums will vary some as the RPM's go up and down. The idle balance can be different than the 3,500 RPM balance, so where do you set your base-line reference?
I have the Morgan unit, and it may not be the best, but for me it’s close enough and I don’t have the buzz, and it idles pretty good, and I get 45 MPG, sort of, and I’m too lazy to try for perfection anyway. I check my balance usually in the spring and fall (just did it two weeks ago) when the air changes around here, and/or when I put the carbs back on after cleaning. Adjustments have been minimal for several years.
-
Yes, I'm with you there, Nosmo. CHT/EGT on a Connie, now that would be funny. Obviously the aviation "Connie" association is not lost on you, I know it isn't!
OK then, the votes are in, the four channel panel mounting electronic vacuum gauge/carb balance indicator is off the drawing board unless somebody comes to it's defense :-)
Maybe I'll do a workshop version that hooks up to a data acquisition system and gives you a four-channel chart recorder trace on a full size PC screen with averaging and differential indicators...
Yeah - in my dreams. If nobody wants it then it isn't worth it. I guess I must just be bored at work and need a good meaty design project to get my teeth into.
I guess I won't mention my idea for a servo-controlled balance adjuster system, to actually automatically adjust the sync, then... ;-)
-
Nah, don't let us discourage you, at least that wasn't my intent. More power to you or anybody who has the skill to come up with cool farkles. Where would we be if someone had talked Steve out of pursuing his 7th gear mod or the 2 minute mod for the carbs? I'm just lucky to be able to change my oil a couple of times a year without setting the thing on fire, and as long as it runs on at least 3 1/2 cylinders 95% of the time, I'm happy. Others require or desire more exacting performance. Nuthin' wrong with that. I've been thinking for a long time about how to fab up a carburetor flow bench that would allow setting of actual fuel flows on a volume basis and had it about 1/2 way figured when I lost interest. Maybe some day. (Don't hold your breath.)
-
Well then I'll keep it stirring around in my mind on the few remaining trips on the bike from MN to IL I can swing yet this year.
Flow bench ... interesting idea. Yes, that would be a valuable tool. There are some pretty fine fuel flow rates right there, especially down at idle. They would be hard to measure with any transducer I know of. The other part, of course, is that gasoline is volatile substance, "known to cause cancer in the State of California..." etc, and we aren't really supposed to be dumping it out into the atmosphere. We'd have to come up with a reclamation system to be fully legal. I doubt there is another substance we could use in place of gasoline that would behave the same in a carburetor. Those two Italians - Bernoulli and Venturi - if only they knew how much trouble they caused ;-)
This discussion should be in another thread of course, though this is a fine time to be saying that!
Another thought on the vacuum monitor idea: I could make it "blind" i.e. no display, just a data acquisition system. It would acquire pressure data over a period of time, and you could then hook it up to a computer and analyze the data afterward.
A question - probably best directed to Steve in Florida, as he's the carb guy:
The vacuum port on one of the carbs goes to the airbox, doesn't it? And one to the petcock? The petcock feed is a static pressure tap to operate the shutoff, but the airbox connection - doesn't that affect the vacuum on the inlet it's connected to and mess up the sync job ?
-
the 49 state model doesn't have any vac hookup to the airbox. #2 goes to the petcock. 1+4 t together to the pair valve. 3 is closed. I'd pull the pair system and cap 1-4 also. HTH, Steve
-
pair valve? what's that?
and is that a recommendation?
-
I've finally managed to re-install my carbs, cleaned and modded by SISF with overflows and jets for the cam mod (to be done next). I had to wait for the Morgan Carbtune I ordered, then my buddy got sick and couldn't help (bike was in his garage, I didn't think it decent to have him miss the fun).
The carbs went in easier than they came out - once I had the sense to temporarily remove the breather tube that runs back to the top front of the airbox. The carb block slid in high, and it was easy to tilt the front sides down and direct them into the front rubbers, then work the back rubbers around each inlet port and finally do up the clamps and run the springs into their channels. The cables were no more trouble than I expected them to be (just a slight taking up of some slack on the pull side). Steve's foam mod was a breeze (once I found the instructions I'd mislaid almost two weeks ago), as was the overflow drain tube set . Finally, with the temporary loan of an old lawnmower tank and a gas-line filter to prevent me from ending up back at square one, I was ready to tune.
It took no more than 10 minutes to sync the carbs with the new Morgan Carbtune (no sucking of fluid into the cylinders), readjust the idle to just showing the white line at 1000RPM and run round one the screws more time.
At 9 PM this evening I ran a little fifty mile jaunt around the block - a mix of subdivision, country roads, and freeway. It was 34 degrees out when I got back, but I'm happy as a pig in poop. The engine is purring and humming happily, as smooth as a baby's butt, and not a hint of misfiring. For the first time ever my hands aren't sore from vibration, and all of a sudden somehow I find myself totally content with the engine running at 3000 RPM and above: it doesn't sound labored or uncomfortable like it did before; it sounds like it's meant to be there (which you all have been telling me all this time, of course). I love that smooth harmonic hum I get when I change up from second into third and wind it up to around 60, and she just wants to keep going past 75 like she's just waking up.
Down around 2000-2500 it glides quietly down Main Street with no chugging, growling, or surging; a nice constant speed and smooth transitions as the load comes and goes with slight hills. I can roll on and roll the throttle very smoothly without jerking and without the need to clutch through a transition from slowing to speeding up and vice versa. Finally, it pulls away from a dead stop as smoothly a boat leaving shore.
In short, my motor is excellent. As if there was any doubt to be had, Steve's cleaning and mod did wonders, and I don't even have in the new cam it's jetted for yet. I now know what you have all been singing about all this time, and I'm finally happy I bought the Connie.
Thanks for your excellent work, Steve. Not that you need any more accolades, but if anyone is lurking and is on the fence over SISF's carb mods, quite vacillating and get it done! Thanks also to all the other experts here for your advice and opinions - I certainly had plenty of those to chose from ;-)
Next stop, Steve's cam project over the winter, just in time for the start of the 2012 season, and the 7th gear mod will probably get done on my first new back tire, as the wheel has to come off for that too, apparently ;-)
-
So maybe a decent running connie isn't all that bad, eh? The plan here is to get you not thinking so hard about the BMW's, though i realise that IF you have beemer lust it's a going to take alot to satisfy it. Cams next, and that's another big personality change... Thanks, and glad you're liking it - Steve
-
A sweet running Connie is like a fine
wine beer.
Glad yer all squared away on the carbbie issues. Wait till ya get the cams in. That will put an even bigger grin on yer face.
-
Well I'm tellin' ya, Steve, this improvement has definitely pushed the passion of swap right out of my head for now. On the other hand, there'd be nothing wrong with having one of each, would there?!
I was saying to a colleague today that with this experience I certainly won't swap (if ever I do) until I stop my insane commute between Minnesota and Illinois; for all its refinement the beemer has a much higher price per mile, and I'm just not up for that.
On the subject of the commute, the significantly reduced vibration I experienced last night is clearly going to make a huge improvement to my fatigue level on long trips. My hands used to feel sore for two days after each journey. I did a quick fifty mile trip last night and felt like I'd popped around the corner for a newspaper. And the cams are going to make it even smoother? Wow!
I always suspected from the general reputation of Japanese bikes that the Connie ought be smoother than mine was, but I must say I really like the deep sound of the Connie over the lighter Jap bikes - and something you don't get from the highly refined beemer. So with the cam change, the 7th gear mod (I do still keep reaching for that extra gear at 70mph), and an after-market cruise control to round it out, I have a strong suspicion I'm going to have a bike that'll keep me company for another 150,000 miles or more.
I'm so sorely tempted to take the bike back to my dumb dealer and show him what it "shoodaben" like when he sold it to me ;-)
-
A sweet running Connie is like a fine wine beer.
Glad yer all squared away on the carbbie issues. Wait till ya get the cams in. That will put an even bigger grin on yer face.
Yeah, really, let's not get too lah-di-dah with the wine thing - the beer association is just right!
Yup it was definitely worth the three week wait to get it all squared away - I was getting really frustrated with the beast as it was, especially as I had to do a 1300 mile four-day weekend for family logistical reasons the week before I took it down, and that was pretty tough.
Yeah, I can't wait to dig up the money for the cams. I am really impressed with this improvement already, and it has given me the confidence to invest more in the bike by way of Shoodaben upgrades. If only there were more time to enjoy that upgrade this season. I rode the bike to work yesterday and today in 34 degree weather 'cos I'm a nutcase and a die hard, but I'm neither Superman nor Rubeus Hagrid and can't fly, so I will have to put it away when the ice and snow come. Now at least I have something to look forward to over the winter.
-
Yeah, really, let's not get too lah-di-dah with the wine thing - the beer association is just right!
Yup it was definitely worth the three week wait to get it all squared away - I was getting really frustrated with the beast as it was, especially as I had to do a 1300 mile four-day weekend for family logistical reasons the week before I took it down, and that was pretty tough.
Yeah, I can't wait to dig up the money for the cams. I am really impressed with this improvement already, and it has given me the confidence to invest more in the bike by way of Shoodaben upgrades. If only there were more time to enjoy that upgrade this season. I rode the bike to work yesterday and today in 34 degree weather 'cos I'm a nutcase and a die hard, but I'm neither Superman nor Rubeus Hagrid and can't fly, so I will have to put it away when the ice and snow come. Now at least I have something to look forward to over the winter.
You're doing great. It took me four YEARS to get mine "squared away" and I'm still trying to improve it.
-
No, by three weeks to get it squared away I meant it was down for three weeks with the carbs out. Steve got them back to me in good time, but then I had to wait for the Carbtune for another week, then my buddy whose garage/workshop I was borrowing was sick. It was a long three weeks, knowing that the bike was going to be spectacular just in time for the winter.
By the way, Nosmo, is that snow in the background of your picture? I'm damn impressed if it is.
-
By the way, Nosmo, is that snow in the background of your picture? I'm damn impressed if it is.
Yep, that's snow, a mile or so down the road from Paradise Inn (5400 feet) on our Mt. Rainier, so I'm at about 5000 there. It's not really as severe as it looks, this was in the late spring, and down below there a bit it was sunny and not that cold, and of course the roads were clear. A larger pic is below along with another of Connie in my little town and the Wee-Strom also up on Rainier, but on the other side.
-
Thanks for posting those.
On a very related subject, I'm getting accustomed to receiving strange looks. It was 46F and raining in Rockford Illinois this evening when I stopped in to my local supermarket for some milk etc. Folks were looking at me like I was crazy, or not human, or something, dressed up in my motorcycling gear. The funny thing is that most people aren't yet dressed for the weather, so despite the fact that I'm riding the bike around in the rain, I'm warmer than they are walking to and from the parking lot.
A question for you and anyone lurking (yes I know I was going to let this thread die!): my bike is getting a little reluctant to start in air temps below around 45. I don't know if it's a side effect of SISF's jets, but I have had at least a couple of nights this cold before the update and I didn't experience this.
Any clues, experiences, suggestions, anyone?
-
Are you using full enrichener on cold starts? There's nothing in my jetting that leans the low rpm operation, in fact it's richer than the factory tuning. I physically put jet drills through the pilot and enrichener circiuts and then see them flow before the carbs are buttoned up, so I know the circuits are all flowing properly - Steve
-
.... my bike is getting a little reluctant to start in air temps below around 45. I don't know if it's a side effect of SISF's jets, but I have had at least a couple of nights this cold before the update and I didn't experience this.
After sitting for how long? You've now got overflow tubes which open the carb bowls where the fuel is exposed to the atmosphere and even in the cold there will be some gas evaporation after sitting overnight or for more than 8 hours; thus requiring the use of the prime position of the fuel tap before attempting to start the engine to replace fuel lost to the Angels.... As well as the Choke as commented on by Steve.
-
You could always do away with the carbs and go with fuel injection :).
-
Hey vinnie, got a price for that? Steve
-
Not my kit - but the guy at this company - Matt - is developing a kit for larger capacity bikes.
Have a look and see what you think - I have a set of ZX6r throttle bodies that I want to hook up - I would not use a sinle TB.
http://www.ecotrons.com/ (http://www.ecotrons.com/)
-
I've got overflow tubes, SISF's jet kit and never use prime to start the bike. Last time it sat was for four days, till yesterday afternoon ... full enrichener and hit the button and it always starts right up ... it was in the mid 50's here yesterday afternoon.
-
Are you using full enrichener on cold starts? There's nothing in my jetting that leans the low rpm operation, in fact it's richer than the factory tuning. I physically put jet drills through the pilot and enrichener circiuts and then see them flow before the carbs are buttoned up, so I know the circuits are all flowing properly - Steve
Yes I am. It would never start if I didn't do that. Are you suggesting I shouldn't need to?
-
After sitting for how long? You've now got overflow tubes which open the carb bowls where the fuel is exposed to the atmosphere and even in the cold there will be some gas evaporation after sitting overnight or for more than 8 hours; thus requiring the use of the prime position of the fuel tap before attempting to start the engine to replace fuel lost to the Angels.... As well as the Choke as commented on by Steve.
Just overnight, T Cro, and at the ambient temperature we're talking about the angels aren't getting much ;-)
-
I've got overflow tubes, SISF's jet kit and never use prime to start the bike. Last time it sat was for four days, till yesterday afternoon ... full enrichener and hit the button and it always starts right up ... it was in the mid 50's here yesterday afternoon.
I had a "four day weekend layover" problem like that once, before SISF got his hands on it, but that's not what I'm talking about here. SISF might be onto something, because I found that I had to back off the enricher somewhat from it's usual starting position to get a peak in rpm with the throttle at idle - implying that it's naturally richer than it was before his mod (which, of course, it is).
What happens next - both before and after SISF's mod - is that at some point as the engine warms it will surge quickly up to a new RPM and stay there. It's like somebody just cracked the throttle a little. I have to quickly bring it down so it doesn't over-rev. Then it'll warm up a bit more, do that surge thing again, I bring it down again, and then it'll finally settle down into a gentle increase in rpm until it's warm enough to ride.
It's a strange behavior, but it's always been there. I'd think it was a carburation problem, except that Steve's just fixed that.
-
After sitting over night in the cold my bike wont start either without full enricher, stock carbs no over flow tubes, now in the summer mornings i can some times start it without choke but if she has been sitting a few days or more then i need choke.
-
It's a strange behavior, but it's always been there.
Same here, at start up i have to back off the choke little by little or she will raise the rpm's to high, i like keep rpm around 1500k til she warms up.
-
that revving up behavoir is common to the carbs, there's nothing wrong with them, it's how they work. You should need to use the enrichener on cold/first starts, so everything is working normally. Steve
-
Steve, do you typically put the trap loop in the overflow drain tubes? Ever since you told me to do that with mine, it starts normally with full enrichener, which gets backed off very rapidly.
-
Yup, but probably wrong Steve. :loco: :banghead: :chugbeer:
-
Yup, but probably wrong Steve. :loco: :banghead: :chugbeer:
Heh heh. I'm just happy if anyone answers. That's why I randomly dial phone numbers and frequently call in to radio shows. Oh, did I just say that outloud, or just in my head :o
-
Heh heh. I'm just happy if anyone answers. That's why I randomly dial phone numbers and frequently call in to radio shows. Oh, did I just say that outloud, or just in my head :o
Yes.