Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: katata1100 on May 31, 2019, 05:29:27 PM
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Just great! To help force the consumer to buy more ethanol from big corn, Trump has signed this order. I just read an article claiming it’s a win for the consumer as it will make gas become cheaper.
Really ? And no mention to the lower hp and mpg . I guess I should feel better that the epa says it’s safe to use in all cars made after 2001. But what about my ‘96 Impala Ss? Should I just scrap it? My recently restored ‘91 Katana 1100? Scrap that too?
Being more forum related, is e15 approved for use in the C14?
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It’s not approved for use in my C14!
...or my Magnum.
... or my M109R.
...or even my lawn mower for that matter!!!!
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I know the economy is not as good as straight gas but, I thought ethanol was able to produce more power.
Not advocating e85. I think people should have to look for ethanol if they want it. I can’t get pure gas without traveling about 50 miles one way unless you count AVGAS 100LL from the local small airport which smells amazing mixed with maxima 927 and burned every rotation of the crank in any size bore. Smells good in the Vmax too😇
Lacking an O2 sensor my 1400 could smell sweet too.
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According to the epa, e15 can not be used in on or off road motorcycles :
https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-reporting-and-compliance-help/e15-fuel-registration (https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-reporting-and-compliance-help/e15-fuel-registration)
Now I’m sure someone will say just find a station that sells e10 or even alc free. Easier said than done .
In my area, there are only two stations ( 40 miles apart) that sell E0. It is regular 87 ( not approved by Kawa) and for reasons related to the gov, cost a little more than e10 91 octane.
I can see station after station only carrying e15 gas and where would that leave us c14 owners? When I’m out slabbing 12 hours a day, the last thing I want to do is worry about finding a station with real gas they my bike can run on. Believe it or not, e15 isn’t enough to satisfy big corn; they want everyone to be forced to buy E30!
Alcohol has less energy than gas. There are studies that show a loss of 3-5% hp and mpg with E10 vs pure gas. Alcohol does have higher octane, but when blended with 85 oct gas to get 87, that e10 87 will have less hp and mpg than pure gas. You can get more power out e85 if you modify your motor with large injectors and more compression.
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Download the app.
(https://is2-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Purple113/v4/a5/3f/8c/a53f8cf1-4306-acec-8d87-d4cce455d302/AppIcon-0-1x_U007emarketing-0-0-GLES2_U002c0-512MB-sRGB-0-0-0-85-220-0-0-0-6.png/1200x630wa.png)
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I know the economy is not as good as straight gas but, I thought ethanol was able to produce more power.
Not advocating e85. I think people should have to look for ethanol if they want it. I can’t get pure gas without traveling about 50 miles one way unless you count AVGAS 100LL from the local small airport which smells amazing mixed with maxima 927 and burned every rotation of the crank in any size bore. Smells good in the Vmax too😇
Lacking an O2 sensor my 1400 could smell sweet too.
You need to do some reading man. Ethanal has LESS power per gallon than does gasoline. Even mixed with gas, less power!
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Download the app.
No point here. 1.5 million people area, thousands of square miles. 0 gas stations with pure gas.
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Generally , when I’m slabbing, my goal is to reach my destination , which might be a super 8 adjacent to a brew pub. I don’t want to replace that with the only ethanol free station in the state.
There is one ethanol free station in my area and I actually tuned my ‘91 katana 1100 to run off it. Using e10 makes it a tad lean and I can feel the difference in power.
At the very least, there should be a disclaimer at the pump stating that using e15 will cause 5-8% loss in hp/mpg over pier gas and 3% loss in hp/mpg over E10. Also should have warning that it should not be used in pre 2001 cars and never in a motorcycle or lawn mower.
Otherwise it is federal endorsement of misleading the consumer.
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I have not seen one pump that forces you to use E15 in VA thus far. E10 is always available (so far) as is non-ethanol fuel. I can use E15 in both my 16 Tacoma and 16 Indian Roadmaster. I have tried it in the truck and it gets less fuel mileage. I would put up with that if it was significantly cheaper, but it's not. So far E15 is not an issue for me and they sky is not falling.
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I think the main problem, and perhaps the one that the AMA has been complaining about.....is that sooner or later some sleepy truck driver is going to pump the E10 underground tank full of E15. Or perhaps he isn't sleepy, just doesn't give a crap and ran out of E10 so rather than lose money he'll fill the tank with E15 to keep his revenue up. In other words, having one more variety of gasoline, plus diesel to keep track of, sooner or later what's coming out of the pump will not match the label on the pump. If it's one of the E10 octane varieties or pure gas, no biggie. If it's diesel, perhaps the filling procedure for a motorcycle which usually requires closer monitoring than for a car or truck, hopefully the motorcyclist will immediately notice a different smell or color (on road diesel is dyed green in many areas). However if it's E15 coming out of an E10 marked pump it's hard to detect and most likely going to be problematic going down the road of the bike's life.
https://transportationnation.com/truck-drivers-gas-station-fuel-delivery-gone-wrong-causes-mess-for-motorists/ (https://transportationnation.com/truck-drivers-gas-station-fuel-delivery-gone-wrong-causes-mess-for-motorists/)
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My rough math says that all that is bad with e15 will be 50% more than e10. When it’s below 50 degrees, my katana 1100 will be that much harder to start, along with worse mpg and hp.
I think this is a big deal. Go west of the Mississippi and you’ll see that probably at least 90% of all stations ONLY sell e10. Doesn’t matter whether it’s reg or prem, it is cut with 10% alc. It should be expected that these same stations will switch to E15. Its great if you live in a state where you have good access to non alcohol adulterated gas but...
The C14 ( as proclaimed in Kawa lit) is a transcontinental tourer. It’s designed for long trips- touring .
If there is not a reasonable supply of e10 or better gasoline across the country, then this bike has been neutered, to being nothing more than a grocery getter.0
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The only reason I see to allow e15 year around is to appease the corn farmers due to the trade war. On the other hand, crop loss due to floods and rain this year should be a reason to use the available corn for feed and food instead of fuel. The only gain is political.
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Anyone remember these commercials?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYHoeIvb8I4&app=desktop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYHoeIvb8I4&app=desktop)
I remember the commercials. I also know Gasohol disappeared not too long after it was introduced. Anyone know why they stopped making it back then?
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Anyone remember these commercials?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYHoeIvb8I4&app=desktop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYHoeIvb8I4&app=desktop)
I remember the commercials. I also know Gasohol disappeared not too long after it was introduced. Anyone know why they stopped making it back then?
They didn't, the name just changed to "e10, e15, e85, etc". From the video description, "The term gasohol was defined, for the first time, in the Energy Tax Act of 1978. Gasohol was defined as a blend of gasoline with at least 10 percent alcohol by volume,".
As to the alcohol makes more power thing, it does. IF you increase compression or boost, advance the timing because of the high octane, increase the fuel flow rate and other tuning needs. BUT, it's going to get lousy MPG compared to gasoline. Look at the NHRA drag racing alcohol classes and Indy cars. Different strokes...
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Maybe they didn’t totally stop making it, but it virtually disappeared from most all gas stations for a long time before you started seeing labels on the pumps saying “may contain up to 10% ethanol” then finally “E10”. There were many years where you didn’t have to worry about the effects of ethanol on carburetors like you do now.
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There were many years where you didn’t have to worry about the effects of ethanol on carburetors like you do now.
I am pretty sure that E10 is what destroyed my ZRX. Three times I had shops "repair" the carbs and finally replaced the bike (with the Concours) and that was a major factor.
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Maybe they didn’t totally stop making it, but it virtually disappeared from most all gas stations for a long time before you started seeing labels on the pumps saying “may contain up to 10% ethanol” then finally “E10”. There were many years where you didn’t have to worry about the effects of ethanol on carburetors like you do now.
Yep. Did they keep it going in the corn belt states to support the farmers? I should know as I lived in Illinois during that period, but... Mind like a steel sieve... :banghead: :rotflmao:
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Just great! To help force the consumer to buy more ethanol from big corn, Trump has signed this order. I just read an article claiming it’s a win for the consumer as it will make gas become cheaper.
Really ? And no mention to the lower hp and mpg . I guess I should feel better that the epa says it’s safe to use in all cars made after 2001. But what about my ‘96 Impala Ss? Should I just scrap it? My recently restored ‘91 Katana 1100? Scrap that too?
Being more forum related, is e15 approved for use in the C14?
Totally sucks! I'm moving to Oklahoma next week. Oklahoma has many positive and negative attributes but one of the major positive attributes for me is the fact that they sell real gas almost everywhere in the Oklahoma City area. E0 thank you very much! Stop forcing me to buy ADM's corn squeezing's! I haven't had a chance to try it in my Multistrada yet but can feel the difference in my 2011 Nissan Titan.
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Yep. Did they keep it going in the corn belt states to support the farmers? I should know as I lived in Illinois during that period, but... Mind like a steel sieve... :banghead: :rotflmao:
I grew up in farm country (central Illinois). I remember seeing Gasahol in the 70’s, then it disappeared sometime in the 80’s. Started driving when I was 11 out on and around the farm. Got my drivers license and first car in 86. I can’t remember if it was the late 90’s or early 2000’s when the “May contain up to 10%” labels came out and they were everywhere in no time!
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Wasn't gasahol supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread when they phased out lead? Then to much uproar because of the corrosive nature caused it to loose favor as manufacturers tried to catch up with rubber parts and seals. They were using MTBE as a stopgap oxygenator and to raise octane until it was found in to many drinking water wells. Lo and behold E10 to the rescue which brings us to where we are today ... burning what we should be drinking.
PS...ILL-inois still sucks!
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I grew up in farm country (central Illinois).
Whoa! Me too. Ever hear of Newton? Little town near Effingham.
gPink, yeah, it does. Crazy taxes. & we have the ex-governor here in the Denver area enjoying some federal housing. He probably doesn't appreciate it as much as we enjoy him being in there. :chugbeer: :D
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Yep, I know where Newton is. I grew up between Easton and Mason City.
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And I thought I was from a small town. ;D
Actually, it was a great place to grow up & I love the values instilled from the hard working people from the area.
Just too bad Ill is stuck with Chicago and their messes.
Where are you at now?
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I agree. Great place to grow up. I’m in Chesterfield, VA now.
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Back in the 70's, in South Hill Va we had a Pilot station that used Gasahol. After a few bad experiences with that fuel, I certainly stopped using it and that station, but several factors may have been at play to doom it then. Alcohol laced gas is a solvent and if there is any crud in the fuel system of your car it would cut it loose and clog filters and carbs. Any crud in the pumps and tanks as well would flow into your car. Another factor would have been the quality of the station itself such as it's upkeep of the tanks and pumps. Pilot at that time was never known as a high quality pumping source in town. The source it got the gas from may have been suspect too. The real factor that doomed it was less expensive real gas. Gasahol came into being after the 73/74 embargo by the Arabs. Once gas got more expensive in the 90's and later, the gas companies started using it again but by then cars were better able to handle it. E10 is the predominate mixture now and still gives problems to small gas engines and such. I've had to replace a carb on my power washer that I left the gas in too long but as the carb was less than $15 it wasn't that much of a big deal to me. I just make sure to put Stabil in my gas for the small engine stuff.....or I've gone electric for my chain saw and weed wacker. As I stated before I haven't had any issues in my fuel injected vehicles (that I'm aware of) as they are essentially made for it now. Nor have I been forced to use E15. I've only seen it in a few stations so far. One them out Poseidon's way out 60 west in a Wawa on the left near Powhatan. I'm heading out to Ohio the end of the month and I'll see if there's changes in the stations there and back.
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Totally sucks! I'm moving to Oklahoma next week. Oklahoma has many positive and negative attributes but one of the major positive attributes for me is the fact that they sell real gas almost everywhere in the Oklahoma City area.
Ouch! From Dripping Springs to OKC, that's gotta hurt. Hopefully there will be some pain relief in your wallet (a raise in salary) from such a move. Let's see...curvy roads ..(searching through maps noises)..hmmm..doesn't seem to be a Butler map for Oklahoma...maybe I didn't buy that one?..oh well no matter I'll try Google maps.... well there is the cloverleaf curves at I 240 and I 35 and a couple of curves over on E & W Stanley Draper Dr (speed limit 45 :P)....but not much else.
Are you sure about this move? I mean pure gas is nice, but.... ???
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Ouch! From Dripping Springs to OKC, that's gotta hurt. Hopefully there will be some pain relief in your wallet (a raise in salary) from such a move. Let's see...curvy roads ..(searching through maps noises)..hmmm..doesn't seem to be a Butler map for Oklahoma...maybe I didn't buy that one?..oh well no matter I'll try Google maps.... well there is the cloverleaf curves at I 240 and I 35 and a couple of curves over on E & W Stanley Draper Dr (speed limit 45 :P)....but not much else.
Are you sure about this move? I mean pure gas is nice, but.... ???
Retiring, can't afford TX property taxes. Ozarks are not that far away and still have family in Colorado, 1 day away. So yeah, I'll miss the TX hill country which I don't have time to ride and will now have to travel a day for good riding but will have the time to do it now ;)
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I am pretty sure that E10 is what destroyed my ZRX. Three times I had shops "repair" the carbs and finally replaced the bike (with the Concours) and that was a major factor.
Hopefully I’m not the only one that finds this very sad. I thought the ZRX was one of the most beautiful bikes ever made, great retro detail,right down to that Kerker- like exhaust. Struck down in its prime because of crappy gas.
It’s nice you got a c14, but a parked in the corner ZRX can make any garage look better.
I have gone through my carbs a few times and can empathize 😢
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Hopefully I’m not the only one that finds this very sad. I thought the ZRX was one of the most beautiful bikes ever made, great retro detail,right down to that Kerker- like exhaust.
Yep, and I had the nice/correct green one, too (2000).
Struck down in its prime because of crappy gas. It’s nice you got a c14, but a parked in the corner ZRX can make any garage look better. I have gone through my carbs a few times and can empathize 😢
I loved that bike. It was a great fit and performed and handled well. But the lack of fuel injection was the downfall. That said, I love the Concours even more- it is just bigger/heavier than I wanted. But even more comfortable, faster, and the wind protection is great.