Got it, Thanks. 

While you're in the mood, is GIVI (as in top case) pronounced  "Giv-ey" or "Jiv-ey"  That is hard g, short i, long e; vs soft g, short i, long e ? ..or something else altogether?   

I believe its pronounced GV.   The initials of the founder, Giuseppe Visenzi.

Running Pirelli Angel GTs now.  Approx. 3K miles with no complaints.  One opinion is that the previous set of PR3s were better in the wet, and on painted surfaces.   There are a couple of really wide solid yellow painted crosswalks which run at a 45 degree angle to the road that I go over at about 35 mph at the golf course.  They are real fun when they're wet. 

Got it, Thanks. 

While you're in the mood, is GIVI (as in top case) pronounced  "Giv-ey" or "Jiv-ey"  That is hard g, short i, long e; vs soft g, short i, long e ? ..or something else altogether?   

I've always heard "Jee Vee".

I said prior in this thread Angel GT's. Well I was forced to try PR4's as the Angel A Spec's are all on back order until November and there was no way I was going to keep the OEM rubber with a plug in the rear on for that long. So coming from the Angel GT A Spcs's to the PR4's I'm not impressed. The Angel's fall into corners. It's effortless cornering and extreme confidence. The PR4's don't do that. You need to put much more effort into the cornering. The confidence part I really haven't had a chance to test yet on the slab ride home.

I said prior in this thread Angel GT's. Well I was forced to try PR4's as the Angel A Spec's are all on back order until November and there was no way I was going to keep the OEM rubber with a plug in the rear on for that long. So coming from the Angel GT A Spcs's to the PR4's I'm not impressed. The Angel's fall into corners. It's effortless cornering and extreme confidence. The PR4's don't do that. You need to put much more effort into the cornering. The confidence part I really haven't had a chance to test yet on the slab ride home.

Same size?  You said PR4, not PR4GT, which did you get?  And how are you comparing the Angel GT A to the PR4 if you are coming off the "OEM rubber"?  [update for last question: I see previous post, so you were only changing the rear]

Generally, the turning effort is mostly about the shape of the tire (assuming one hasn't changed the suspension, tire pressures, and the sidewalls are not deforming, etc).  Nothing about how sticky the tire is, how well it rides, how well it wears, how well it sheds water, etc.  If the tire comparison is between two identical sizes (with same sidewall strengths), then only shape remains... and that generally doesn't seem to change much between models and manufacturers.  Tire pressure can also greatly affect tire shape, so make sure that is correct when comparing (42PSI).

Worn tires, no matter what model or size, will generally have greatly different cornering effort and behavior than a new tire (of any sort)... mostly because the wear changes the shape.  It is typical (at least based on my experience)  that the center will wear out first (flat spot), making it resistant to cornering (lots of effort), and then suddenly very squirrely (as it rides on the transition step), and then easier (as it finally falls over the step and rides on the original less-worn shape).

Boy, Kevin, you seem to be in the vast minority. Guys rave about the PR4's.

That said, if we can get some more guys to make comments similar to yours, maybe PR4 prices will drop 

Have you confirmed your tire pressure?

Maybe you got a bad one.

My experience is, the PR4 GT is a fantastic, neutral turning tire that makes me wonder what else somebody could want in a sport tour tire.

Crap, posting lines like that is gonna offset yours! And the price goes right back up! I better delete it.

Sorry.. PR4GT. 55 rear which is what I always got the Angel GT's in. When I put the very first set of Angel GT A Spec on my 2012 3 years ago I thought something was wrong. It fell into the corners almost too easy. They were outstanding in the wet as well. Never complaint. The PR's aren't bad and are far superior over the OEM crap but they don't feel the same way in the corners.

Oh BTW before singing the praise of the PR's have either of you tried the Angel GTs?

Same size?  You said PR4, not PR4GT, which did you get?  And how are you comparing the Angel GT A to the PR4 if you are coming off the "OEM rubber"?  [update for last question: I see previous post, so you were only changing the rear]

I ran Angel GT A Spec on my 2012 before I traded it in for my 2015. So yes I have 43,000 miles of Angel GT experience. I would never just change a rear. Especially if I'm running OEM. I changed both front and rear.

Generally, the turning effort is mostly about the shape of the tire (assuming one hasn't changed the suspension, tire pressures, and the sidewalls are not deforming, etc).  Nothing about how sticky the tire is, how well it rides, how well it wears, how well it sheds water, etc.  If the tire comparison is between two identical sizes (with same sidewall strengths), then only shape remains... and that generally doesn't seem to change much between models and manufacturers.  Tire pressure can also greatly affect tire shape, so make sure that is correct when comparing (42PSI).

I run all my tires at 44 to 42LBS. As you know with the C14 it loses air over time. I always put in 44 and when I get to 42 I bump it up again.

Worn tires, no matter what model or size, will generally have greatly different cornering effort and behavior than a new tire (of any sort)... mostly because the wear changes the shape.  It is typical (at least based on my experience)  that the center will wear out first (flat spot), making it resistant to cornering (lots of effort), and then suddenly very squirrely (as it rides on the transition step), and then easier (as it finally falls over the step and rides on the original less-worn shape).

Oh BTW before singing the praise of the PR's have either of you tried the Angel GTs?

I haven't.  So I would never dismiss or criticize the Angel GT's.  I *can* sing the praise of the PR4GT compared to the OEM and other tires I have used on other bikes, but my experience is, indeed, limited.

I was simply pointing out that comparisons can be complex and why.... and that typically the "easy fallover cornering" is a shape function that can be affected by things other than just the design (like suspension, load weight, sidewall strength selection, tire pressures) which need to be held constant.

I haven't.  So I would never dismiss or criticize the Angel GT's.  I *can* sing the praise of the PR4GT compared to the OEM and other tires I have used on other bikes, but my experience is, indeed, limited.

I was simply pointing out that comparisons can be complex and why.... and that typically the "easy fallover cornering" is a shape function that can be affected by things other than just the design (like suspension, load weight, sidewall strength selection, tire pressures) which need to be held constant.

Take a walk on the wildside. Stick a pair of Angel's under ur butt  I totally agree it's all about the shape of the Angels. The PRs are I'm sure a rock solid tire it's just a matter of feel I guess. There is a similar thread in the other forum and the majority like PR followed closely by the Angels and then a few one offs.

Pirelli Angel GT 190/50 "A" all the way. Outstanding handling,also fall into corners.Was looking to put Michelin PR4 GT on but not available,so on went the Pirelli's. So glad I did.
Reading on a BMW forum about cupping issues on the front Michelin PR4 GT tyres with the heavier BMW's. Interesting.
Anyone having these concerns with their Kawasaki's?

Reading on a BMW forum about cupping issues on the front Michelin PR4 GT tyres with the heavier BMW's. Interesting.Anyone having these concerns with their Kawasaki's?

I have not seen a single posting to that.  My OEM ["Brickstones"] ones did cup badly, however.

On a related note, I just noticed that my rear PR4GT is getting near the center wearband, although has lots of outer tread    Highway victim.   I replaced the worn-out OEM tires at 9,357mi on 04-10-2014.  Now at 23,500  = 14,143.  I think I can go several more months.  The front I am not so sure about, I need to look more closely.

I recently cut a section out of my old rear PR4 GT  (50 series) just to see how much rubber was between the cord and the road when that tiny center sipe goes away.
Below you can see that the center sipe is still just barely visible but I doubt it's depth could be measured by mechanical means without the use of some sort of expensive laser tool.
There is really more rubber there than what I was expecting.
Since I did the cut I've also read where some have said that the GTs have only one ply on the sidewalls. I really have no expertise in tires, but it looks to me that it has 2 bias plys
(sort of an orange peach color in the photos) all over the tire and one radial ply (cream color) at the tread. No?

 ..anyway regardless of whether I'm even close in my ply counting, it would be nice if someone else would do the same with a non-GT PR4 just for comparison.
Just use a recip saw and a belt sander to clean it up a bit.
(click pic for full size)

I recently cut a section out of my old rear PR4 GT  (50 series) just to see how much rubber was between the cord and the road when that tiny center sipe goes away.

Good/interesting info/photos.

It is somewhat reassuring.  I am trying to determine how long to run tires past wear bars- other than failure, the biggest risk is, of course, not having tread grooves.  And that will severely hurt wet riding.  Of course, if you don't ride in the rain, that part should not matter (but what to do if caught unexpectedly in the rain... yuck).

What is not shown in the photo are any of the center wear bar indicators, unfortunately.  I will assume that they are/were worn flat/even (or you would not have replaced the tire).

What is not shown in the photo are any of the center wear bar indicators, unfortunately.  I will assume that they are/were worn flat/even (or you would not have replaced the tire).

Yeah, in hindsight I could have sliced it at a better location, to show the wear bars. I just picked a random spot because at the time I was only wanting to know how much rubber was between the cord and the center sipe. IIRC, I don't think the wear bars were reached yet as they are off center a bit and my tires always wear out in the middle, so I replace the tire when the center sipe disappears. If it works in my schedule I may take a set a little closer to the cord. That will have to wait though as my next set of tires are AVON Storm 3D x-m, and I doubt the current PR4GTs will be toasted before I need to change them for a longer trip in October.  I don't always wear the tires all the way down because my C14 is used more for trips, I rarely just go out for a ride on it as I have other bikes to ride local. Maybe a local day ride 3 - 4 times a year.  If I have only 1000-1500 miles left on the tire it needs to come off before I leave the house. Yes, I do waste a lot of tire, and yes the dark side has really been tugging at me. I may wear down (pun groan here  ) and fall into the dark side some day.

Still it would be nice if others would slice open their worn tires and then we could start a tire cross section photo library data base right here. 

I can't do a cross section, but here are some comparison photos of my rear and front from straight-on and at an angle at 14,200 miles of wear.  I used a very expensive/nice camera and in HDR mode to try and get the best image I could... since looking at wear patterns in 2D is already challenging enough.

I don't normally do this, but I am posting at rather high resolution, since detail does matter in this case.

Dang, Maxtog, what do you weigh? About 90#'s?

That's amazing to see @ 14,200 miles. I'll be shocked to see 8,000 from my new PR4 GT's, but I can hope!

Dang, Maxtog, what do you weigh? About 90#'s?

I finished my diet (mostly) so I am now 137 pounds.  Knowing me, that won't last long.  I will slip back into eating too much and within a year, be back at 155 pounds and ready to diet again.  Will I ever learn?

That's amazing to see @ 14,200 miles. I'll be shocked to see 8,000 from my new PR4 GT's, but I can hope!

There are so many factors that affect wear.  I think a lot of it is the type and condition of the roads.  But there is also weight, how much you spin (if any), how much crown, what temperatures, if the tires are kept inflated properly, etc.  Looking carefully at my tires at 14,200, I think I still have several months left on the rear (love to know what others think), and I am really not sure about the front.  But to me, it doesn't look like I am going to get what a lot of people claim as two rear to one front.  It looks more like 1.333 rear to one front.  And if that is the case, I will just replace them both at the same time due to the hassle and risk of taking it in (I can't do tires myself.... no way, no how).

It is interesting to compare to the photos from Marty.... Oh, hey, Marty, you didn't post on there how many miles were on the tire!!!  I wish I could take some of the unused side tread and slap it in the middle.... lots of highway miles compared to fun cornering.  Where I live, I gotta go quite a long way to get to "nowhere", where there are interesting roads (no lights, lots of turns/curves/etc).... plus I also rack up about 60 miles a week of slab just going to and from my friend's house once a week.  It adds up.  I do like these tires.

Shoot man, ATGATT puts me at 260-270. I couldn't get to 137 unless I cut off all my limbs and then some (big hands you know...  )

I live in Ga and we're closing in on 90+ days in a row of 90+ temps. Come on fall!! Our gravel in the road is fragmented granite with lots of sharp edges and we ride two up a lot. I'd be happy with 8,000 miles. I've never gotten more than 6,500 on any tire of any kind and I ride pretty conservatively. I got 5,051 on the OEM "Stones.

Crap, I guess I just need cheaper tires, but I like the PR4 GT's so far.

Regarding your miles left, I'll start the pool with 700 miles based on the thickness of Marty's cross-section photo. I'd be toast in 200.

Thanks!
Ron

I get about 14k out of a rear PR4GT and will probably make 2 to1 rear to front. Lots of miles on the slab...